disappointing numbers
10-01-2008, 08:09 AM
#16
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Moore OK
Posts: 2,182
Get him to show you a graph with no smoothing, something like std:0 - A lot of guys like to post up sae numbers, but sae:5 will do a lot of smoothing on the graph.
This may show if indeed there is an ignition issue. Plug gaps can't hurt to try. Even on my creation it only took about an hour to do them all. (Honestly I still haven't done #7. My log runs high, crossover and downpipe are below it... need to drop the downpipe to get to it.)
You have more turbo and more cubes than me, but assuming the cam is not massive and since the heads don't really flow then 520 may not be too far off. Remember its a measure of resistance. Compression? If its a boost built motor and everything is looking safe see what it does on more boost. Don't get stuck on a psi number. When I get back to the dyno I'm going to keep adding boost until its just blowing hot air. If it takes me 20psi to get an even 600rwhp so be it.
How high did you get the timing? It may still want more depending on the setup.
This may show if indeed there is an ignition issue. Plug gaps can't hurt to try. Even on my creation it only took about an hour to do them all. (Honestly I still haven't done #7. My log runs high, crossover and downpipe are below it... need to drop the downpipe to get to it.)
You have more turbo and more cubes than me, but assuming the cam is not massive and since the heads don't really flow then 520 may not be too far off. Remember its a measure of resistance. Compression? If its a boost built motor and everything is looking safe see what it does on more boost. Don't get stuck on a psi number. When I get back to the dyno I'm going to keep adding boost until its just blowing hot air. If it takes me 20psi to get an even 600rwhp so be it.
How high did you get the timing? It may still want more depending on the setup.
10-01-2008, 02:07 PM
#17
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Davie, FL
Posts: 1,109
Well i'm going to regap them and just take it to the track. I'm getting the car painted next week, then it's racing time. I forgot before to mention, the car dynoed 480 last week on 16 degrees, I had changed the tune before I got to the dyno this time to 22 degrees just to save time on the dyno since it's 100 an hour and only dynoed 460, that was my baseline. So i did pick up about 60rwhp by upping the timing from 22 to 26, just didn't pick up alot going to 22. I think the car is also pulling timing, but datamaster doesn't work with windows vista so I can't check. The car made 515 with the computer allowed to pull 5 degrees, it made 520 when I only allowed it to pull 2 degrees. I'm pretty sure it's not real knock as the car used to pull timing even on motor. I had basically removed it's ability to retard timing before, but put it back in with the turbo setup. I had run the car on motor on 103 octane and it still pulled 5 degrees of timing. I'll try to get the graph asap it's a little wavy from about 5k up, but not too bad, it still feels extremely strong. When I was trapping 117 on motor my car would spin a lot of first then dead hook second, now it just spins all of second and the tires shake bad at the top of third before it hooks back in fourth.
jsetzer- i'll ask him for that graph as well, the cam as i said before is a 230-240 on 116 with .541 lift (not taking in account the 1.6s). Compression I calculated to be right around 9-1. It can take more boost, it's just running out of fuel. The car must of spun a lot the first time on the dyno, because we t-ed off the wastegate to atmosphere and it made 13psi, on the street like that it went to 19.5 in fourth, but my afr jumped to mid 12s. I still had the timing low so i didnt break anything, plus i let off really fast.
jsetzer- i'll ask him for that graph as well, the cam as i said before is a 230-240 on 116 with .541 lift (not taking in account the 1.6s). Compression I calculated to be right around 9-1. It can take more boost, it's just running out of fuel. The car must of spun a lot the first time on the dyno, because we t-ed off the wastegate to atmosphere and it made 13psi, on the street like that it went to 19.5 in fourth, but my afr jumped to mid 12s. I still had the timing low so i didnt break anything, plus i let off really fast.
Last edited by 97s10ondubs; 10-01-2008 at 02:13 PM.
10-01-2008, 02:09 PM
#18
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bridgewater, MA
Posts: 5,645
Well i'm going to regap them and just take it to the track. I'm getting the car painted next week, then it's racing time. I forgot before to mention, the car dynoed 480 last week on 16 degrees, I had changed the tune before I got to the dyno this time to 22 degrees just to save time on the dyno since it's 100 an hour and only dynoed 460, that was my baseline. So i did pick up about 60rwhp by upping the timing from 22 to 26, just didn't pick up alot going to 22. I think the car is also pulling timing, but datamaster doesn't work with windows vista so I can't check. The car made 515 with the computer allowed to pull 5 degrees, it made 520 when I only allowed it to pull 2 degrees. I'm pretty sure it's not real knock as the car used to pull timing even on motor. I had basically removed it's ability to retard timing before, but put it back in with the turbo setup. I had run the car on motor on 103 octane and it still pulled 5 degrees of timing. I'll try to get the graph asap it's a little wavy from about 5k up, but not too bad, it still feels extremely strong. When I was trapping 117 on motor my car would spin a lot of first then dead hook second, now it just spins all of second and the tires shake bad at the top of third before it hooks back in fourth.
10-01-2008, 02:53 PM
#19
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Moore OK
Posts: 2,182
When you pull them see if the plugs have any sign of detonation. If you picked up 60hp by adding 4 degrees then I bet you could loose that much by pulling 2-5. I would think you should be fine with 103 - I'm running that much with 91 10% horse ****.
If you can be sure its not pinging, and get it to stop pulling timing, I would even inch it up another degree or two and see what happens. Low compression and a decent cam you never know, it may want more.
If you can be sure its not pinging, and get it to stop pulling timing, I would even inch it up another degree or two and see what happens. Low compression and a decent cam you never know, it may want more.
10-01-2008, 03:02 PM
#20
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Davie, FL
Posts: 1,109
When you pull them see if the plugs have any sign of detonation. If you picked up 60hp by adding 4 degrees then I bet you could loose that much by pulling 2-5. I would think you should be fine with 103 - I'm running that much with 91 10% horse ****.
If you can be sure its not pinging, and get it to stop pulling timing, I would even inch it up another degree or two and see what happens. Low compression and a decent cam you never know, it may want more.
If you can be sure its not pinging, and get it to stop pulling timing, I would even inch it up another degree or two and see what happens. Low compression and a decent cam you never know, it may want more.
10-10-2008, 09:54 PM
#22
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Las Vegas Nv.
Posts: 570
I took my my TFS heads, pulled them out of the box, cleaned them with brake cleaner, installed them and the car made 700hp 640tq @15 psi 23' timing (procharger car) autolite 103 racing plugs gapped at 32
TFS heads dont seem so bad to me.....
10-12-2008, 08:33 PM
#23
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Davie, FL
Posts: 1,109
Jesus, they were unported heads? What does the rest of the setup look like, cam etc.
10-15-2008, 09:45 AM
#26
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Breese, IL
Posts: 799
Plus, with gasket seat plugs, you can index them for a few extra "free" horsepower.
10-15-2008, 11:35 AM
#27
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Davie, FL
Posts: 1,109
Do you know what the crossreference for NGK, I don't think my tr6s are gasket type.
10-16-2008, 12:29 PM
#29
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Las Vegas Nv.
Posts: 570
You are correct sir I have Autolite 3923s in the car got them mixed up with my cobras 103s.
10-16-2008, 12:53 PM
#30
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Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Las Vegas Nv.
Posts: 570
hellfire rings
Dyer rods (300m)
race master callies crank
splayed 4 bolt main with billet caps
383ci
Trick flow heads
blower cam 242/246 .614/.614 116 LSA
chomoly pushrods
titanium retaniers
987 comp springs
FAST computer
96# injectors
full aeromotive fuel system
10an feed
6an return
bmr tank <<<<total POS BTW
eliminator pump
D1SC with 12 Rib
air/water intercooler
15 psi
drivetrain
street twin
D&D built t-56 (viper conversion)
MMC dynotech driveshaft
moser 12 bolt <<< another POS 9" or go home