jimlab

Just curious. Someone posted this in my thread on the RX-7 Forum...

"just to correct you tehre are a VERY few amount of lt1 based motors that are naturally aspirated making in teh 800hp range at the crank...one of them is a 32 valve motor and is AWESOME when it coems to the broadness of its powerband..."

As far as I know, Mindgame made 649 horsepower on pump gas, fully tuned, with 15-degree heads. Mark saw 647 horsepower on one pull with my engine, on the base maps, with ignition problems. It will be going back into the dyno cell at the end of the month, and we'll find out what it makes without ignition break-up and a full tune.

To the best of my knowledge, no one has finished a Dominion/Arao 32-valve LT1 yet (although I'm sure the results will be impressive), and the only 750-800 hp NA LT1s that I know of ride on trailers, as admitted by their owners, and drink race fuel.

So I guess we have two questions...

1. Who makes the most NA power on pump gas?

2. Who makes the most NA power, period?

jpw66

If he's still hanging around, I believe UnstableBob had finished the Dominion install. I not sure what motor they were on, or what it put out...

jimlab

I did some searching, and as far as I can tell, only a couple people have the Dominion heads. Unstable Bob, who hasn't done anything with his yet, to my knowledge, and a guy named Bobby Simpson ("The Big Show") from Texas...

http://www.camaross.com/forums/showt...light=dominion

http://www.fbody.com/members/GreenMeany/Home.htm

There are no updates on his web site that I can find, and I was unable to find a post from Bobby on this forum listing the output of his engine. Even the guy who used to own Unstable Bob's set didn't post any results in the first thread listed above.

jpw66

Ah, yes, I forgot about Bobby. He's bought some parts from me before, but that was before a wreck? I'll email him and see...

treyZ28

showoff

jimlab

Who me?

Hopefully, after a long delay, I'll really have something to show off after next weekend. According to Mark, we've tenatively got the dyno cell for the weekend with setup on Friday, but we'll see.

treyZ28

like a sucker, i'm shooting for 400-425rwhp

Momar

So Jim, I was curious what your setup is? That is hella power.

Ben

Soma07

Promises, promises

So I guess this means the ignition problems finally got sorted out?

But going back to your question I think you answered them yourself. AFAIK you and Mindgame are on top and no one else is even close (running NA). Frankly most people who can afford to build motors of this caliber are probably running LS1's.

PNYKILR

I hope to be at 500rwhp on pump gas. Where does that put me?? New motor is in sig.

jimlab

Bottom end:
Canton road race pan
Moroso blueprinted oil pump
Canton pickup
Stefs oil restrictors (0.060")
ARP main studs
Oliver billet 4-bolt splayed main caps (5)
Childs & Albert main bearings
Crower Ultralight 3.875" billet crank (37 lbs.)
Childs & Albert rod bearings
Crower Maxi-light 94-2 6.0" rods, stroker profile (505 grams)
Custom gas-ported JE pistons (~400 grams with pins, 11.8:1 CR)
Polydyn dry-film lubricant on skirts, ceramic coated crowns
Childs & Albert custom back-cut rings
Dura-bond cam bearings
Cam Motion custom solid roller (26x/26x @ 0.050", 112 lsa)
Bushed lifter bores
Crower 0.180" offset solid roller lifters
Manley pushrods
Cloyes billet double roller timing set
ATI LT4 aluminum Superdamper
MSD crank trigger
Meziere HD pump
Polished S/S fasteners

Top end:
ARP head studs
Custom cast AFR 215cc RR reverse flow cylinder heads
Race porting and port matching (330+ cfm @ 0.650"+ lift)
Manley Titanium valves, 2.100" intake, 1.625" exhaust
Competition valve job
Teflon valve seals
Comp Cams Pacaloy valvesprings (240# seat, 600# open)
Titanium locks and retainers
Crower AFR 215 RR 0.45"/0.10" offset S/S shaft mount rockers
CP Products sheet metal valve covers
Hogan's sheet metal intake w/distributor pad & nitrous bungs
MSD 50 lb-hr. injectors
MSD Digital CPC cam sync stub

Engine Management:
F.A.S.T SEFI-8LO w/wide band 02 sensor
F.A.S.T eDist electronic distributor
LS1 coil packs
LS1 plug wires

And that's about it.

Sorry, Mark's taken down all of his picture directories, and I haven't gotten around to reposting my engine pictures online yet.

Mindgame

Aye 649 hp.... but the story is not over yet.

After posting my results in an earlier thread I tried to recall the cam specs Chuck quoted me... well I was a bit off. See, I asked for one cam and Chuck sent me two! "One to make the power I was after and the other to get max hp if I decided it wasn't enough"..... this according to Chuck. I went with the small cam which I misquoted as the big one.. the small cam is 236 @.050 the large is the 242 @.050 cam. So, we are running a rather mild grind with a peak at 6480 rpm and from there she's a flatliner. What's more interesting is 480 lbs-ft from just 3,000 rpm... so the torque curve is as flat as Calista Flockhart's chest..... I like that... in engines anyways.
Chuck was not so happy to see me use the LT4 intake as he chose the cam based on the use of a Edelbrock Super Vic. He stated that the cam grind was not optimized for the setup I'm using. I can't argue other than to assure the man that I am very happy with the results thus far.
There are a few things left to do though, one being to use a vacuum pump which Steve Schmidt (engine builder) feels will pick us up some 10-15hp. I had originally thought to pass on this but I went ahead and put the pump and the components necessary in using it, on order a few weeks ago. It's sitting at Steve's shop right now and I'm waiting on my custom headers to get back from Jet Hot. The dyno session used a 1-3/4 diameter dyno header with the EGT probes in place and a fixed collector. The headers I'll be using are 1-7/8 with an adjustable length merge collector. I think there's yet some power to be made right here in the exhaust but we'll just have to wait and see.

All said and done, I think we're looking at another ~20 hp and since the car is at the painters right now and other parts are scattered here and there, I might as well play to see what I can get out of this setup. I doubt I'll ever find the need to go to the 242 cam because this is right where I want to be for a "street car". It idles nice, and makes good power.

Jim, I don't think there's any doubt you've got more left in that thing. If it's pulling as hard as I gather, then you haven't seen anything yet. I wish you the best of luck!

-Mindgame

RamAir95TA

Joe Overton. 10.01 @ 133mph. N/A LT1.

jimlab

Apparently.

The engine's buttoned up again with a new front cover, new Cloyes billet timing set, and we now have an MSD Digital CPC cam stub installed at the back of the engine. It only took them six or seven months after they started advertising that system to actually cough one up.

Meanwhile, my old front cover and Cloyes billet timing set which were sent out to be modified for a cam sync sensor is still at NE Dyno, as far as I know. Despite having the parts for over a month, they didn't deliver on time for the scheduled January dyno session, still hadn't delivered in February, and after I finally got upset and posted about it, still haven't sent the parts back. I would highly recommend not doing business with them.

So between MSD and NE Dyno, I've been waiting well over half a year to get my ignition issues sorted out.

Well, the only 700+ horsepower NA LT1 that I know of belongs to another forum member (can't remember his alias at the moment), and he freely admitted that the cam was too big to be considered streetable, and that race fuel was required.

True about the LS1s, but even the NA LS1s (Besides the C5-R) don't make this much power, as far as I know. TPIS built an NA 435 CID sleeved LS1 (4.125" crank, 4.100" bore) last year and it made 630 horsepower and 600 lb-ft. on pump gas with a solid roller. MTI rates their Z07 NA 422s at 550-585 horsepower depending on package. I haven't been keeping the closest eye on the subject, but I figure something that drastic would have bubbled to the top in GM High Tech Performance or on this forum, even if it were a second-party report, and I haven't seen anything like that yet. Of course that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

jimlab

Is it ever?

Same here, standard 1 3/4" SBC long tubes. I won't have the space for long tubes on my car, but we are going with 1 7/8" "as long as I can get tubes" which wrap to a single 3" exit. Unfortunate, but that's the limitation of the package. Then again, my package will only weigh about 2,700-2,750 lbs.

Thanks! I'm happy for whoever ends up with the "most" power, no matter who it is. We've been pushing the envelope for the NA LT1 pretty hard lately, and I think that benefits everyone.

I've been waiting over 8 months now just to find out what's between 6,600 and 7,400 rpm with a fully functional ignition. 647 hp @ 6,600 and 637 hp @ 7,400 means there has to be a nice surprise in between (certainly better than a dip to 586 horsepower @ 7,000, at any rate), so I'm not even as excited to find out what the engine makes tuned as I am to find out what it makes on the base maps without an Opti-spark puking all over my curve.