* Estimated alleged Z28 price.

The other poll is a bit misleading, because nearly anyone without ownership of a oil field in another country would say that $50k is not a good thing to spend without clear specification of what the value is of what you are getting in return. No one buys something because the cost is good. People buy things because the value is good. That's the point...COST versus VALUE, not just COST.

So let's make this a bit more fairly worded!

**Is $50,000 a good VALUE if the Z28 is what we are expecting it to be?

• Supercharged LSA (or equivalent) - 550+ hp
• Bigger brakes
• Better suspension
• Upgraded hood, front fascia
• WARRANTY
• etc...

It isn't about if you can afford it, or even want to pay it. For what you would get, is it a good value?

Here's some perspective...I have over $50k total invested in my 2010 Camaro (see sig)...and there was a lot of work involved on my part...and my poweretrain and suspension (at the very least) warranty is long gone. The Z28 would be a turnkey weapon with a factory warranty.

 

I have to say "No". Especially when GM themselves admit the SS is already overpriced and I don't see $18K+ in "add-ons" over the SS. I was expecting it to land in low to mid $40k range. I understand where you have more than this in your car Jason, but its a hot rod not a factory-stock muscle car. You never get "value" when you do aftermarket modifications. Heck I have over $50k into my 1967 Camaro, and there's no way its worth even half of that.

 

Pretty much my thoughts exactly, especially when just jumping from the base V6 model to the base V8 model costs $8300. That being said, I don't necessarily think that the GT500 is a great value either. To me, the car that is king of value in this price range is the Corvette.

 

A $50,000 Camaro is only a good value if it can outperform a $50,000 Mustang and $50,000 Corvette......

 

When did they say this?

*SIGH* I am not referring to resale value. My point was you cannot easily replicate the Z28 with a current Camaro for less.

 

And since you voted NO (big surprise), you already know that it won't?

 

And since you voted YES (big surprise), you already know that it will?

 

Does not compute. I myself never claimed to know one way or the other and I didn't base my vote on it.

You voted that it would NOT be a good value at that price, and then you later stated that it would be a good value at that price ONLY if it can outperform the same priced Mustang and Corvette. Your vote dictates that it will not as if you already know.

Are you going to answer the question or not?

 

Honestly Jason, you're really raggin' on me pretty bad for no good reason - both in this thread and the other one.

Your logic should go both ways. No? You said it would be a good value, I said it won't. We know how the GT500 and Corvette perform. If the Z/28 costs the same as both of them but doesn't outperform them, then by definition it will not be a good value. Unless that is, performance is not how you are judging "value".

 

No I am not, I am just asking you to back up your statements. In the other thread, I was asking you to not be so vague to get the votes you wanted to see by confusing the voters with ambiguity. How you constructed it was not exactly fair.

My logic should not go "both ways" because we do not share the same logic. I voted yes, it is a good value because I know for fact what it takes to build something similar and how much it costs. That's my reasoning. I don't expect anyone else to share it.

You said it was not a good value because it will not outperform the GT500 and Corvette with the same price. I am simply asking how you know this.

This isn't "raggin' on you", I can back up my statement and I am asking you to do the same.

 

In the other thread, I had no preconcieved notion of what votes I "wanted". In fact, if you look at the deleted poll results, you and I voted the same and were in the vast minority. Beyond that, I didn't think I needed to write an essay explaining what I was asking. In my mind it was pretty apparent and certainly self-explainatory in the discussion section. Furthermore, I even edited the OP so there could not possibly be any confusion. It sounds to me like you deleted the poll because YOU didn't like the results.




I don't know EXACTLY how the Z/28 will perform, but I do have some bits and pieces and reference points of which I can extrapolate from. We know the approximate weight and power that the Z/28 will have, we know the general handling characteristics of the 5th gen Camaro. So, we can connect some dots. We also know what an incredible performer the Corvette is for the money. I guess you have your definition of value, I have mine. Personally, I have no problem with a $50,000 Z/28, **AS LONG** as it meets my performance criteria. One of those criteria is the requirement that such a Z/28 show it's tail lights to a base Corvette, GT500 and Boss Mustang on a road course. IF it doesn't.....then it's a poor value TO ME.

 

It was self-explanatory only after you actually explained it. Otherwise, there was no indication of what you were asking people to vote on.

It didn't make any difference after 40 people voted based on the interpretation you left everything up to.

Nice try, but you yourself said the poll didn't matter and the discussion was more important. Since it was revealed that the poll results were not accurate, no need continue to let people think they were. Sounds to me like you don't like that because it stopped you from getting people to jump back on your wagon. Sorry, but I am not going to let that happen again.

I can appreciate that, but in that case I don't understand why you didn't simply vote "I don't know" like your did in the other thread.

 

And which wagon is that? I really don't have a dog in this fight other than the continued future health of the Camaro brand. If you could look past whatever particular thing is presently agitating you, you'd see we're on the same team.


Because this thread and the other thread are asking different things....I don't have the energy to rehash it all again.

 

I have to say yes. Personally I feel the ZL1 would have been a better badge at that price point for it though but I appear to have been in the minority. I couldnt imagine a ZL1 at this point unless it had the LS9 and entire car was carbon fiber and gutted or something.

On the flip side of that, Im thrilled to see a proper Z28 go head to head with the boss. Being as they are testing it against the GT500 I would think this car wouldnt have a problem with the GT500. I am a little surprised as I thought the Track Pack car did better than the GT500.

Personally, if I were in GM's collective shoes, I might have cheated and built a mustang hybrid track monster (street legal or not) to compete against. Then went after it with everything on hand.

So I vote yes with a caveat. Fix the Suspension on the SS or have an
SS 1LE suspension package akin to the Grand Sport. Im REALLY interested as to how anyone else feels about this...

In my eyes, I would think this mandates a Suspension package if not fix for the SS.

BTW, I love the looks of the car. I love the wheels.

Jason are those the same Rims you have on yours?

 

At $50k, my personal preferences and biases would make Corvette a much better performance value. Personally, I'm not much of a fan of the GT500 (again, personal preferences and biases), and the same will likely hold true for the Z28 (based on what we know to this point). A tenth or two difference in 0-60 or 1/4 mile times between it and the GT500 won't sway that opinion, and I *believe* the Corvette will outrun both. I'm not a road course/autocross guy, so those numbers don't hold a lot of relevance to me.

Which makes my next statement rather odd....I'm digging the Boss. I am quite biased towards n/a applications, and even though this car is set up for corners and not the drags, it has the guts necessary to make it fit my desires pretty well. Price and availability will be the BIG sticking point for me, I'm sure.

And in the end, I'll still likely buy a low-mileage LS3 Vette instead....when the time comes.

PS....I didn't vote. Neener neener neener.