to me buying every option(stripes, cargo mat, rear floor mats, polished wheels, mud flaps ect.) doesnt mean loaded.mine is a 2ss with the rs package. i didnt opt for the polished wheels or the sunroof or auto transmission, but it does have all the bells and whistles available in the backages. to me loaded is top of the line package offered(2ss/rs). the other things are extras or add ons. the sunroof would be concidered loaded. i just didnt opt for it. anythign in the gmpp doesnt concider it loaded. those are extras.

 

Ok. Convenient definition. One of these days I'll look up the difference between "option" and "extra", but for now, I digress.

Have a nice day.
Bob

PS....Jason...I did not...you are opinion is based on an inaccurate assumption....IMO.

 

Personally, I love Camaros, but I couldn't bring myself to drop 50 large on one even if I could afford it. But that's just me. I understand the arguments for it though. It's certainly more unique and attention-getting than a base C6....

 

The way the Camaro is set up, it blurs the line of what "loaded" is. I think we are talking about "factory options" (like equipment groups) and "dealer options" like the 21" wheels, ground effects, most stripe packages, etc?. IMO, dealer options are only one step away from aftermarket, just that they are added to the initial purchase price and can be ordered at time of vehicle order, just not put on at the factory. Not to mention, most are GM Performance Parts handled only by the ordering process and the dealer. I don't even think all of them get shipped with the car. Sure, adding in the non-factory (dealer) options, you can build up a ridiculously high priced Camaro...that (again, IMO) looks pretty overdone.

It may be safe for discussion to consider "loaded" the typical classic "loaded". Leather, high end sound system, power everything, sunroof...everything in a standard option package (2LT, 2SS etc.). Additional "options" like the trunk mat, mud flaps (), dorky spoiler, etc. aren't really considered "loaded" because they are not part of the option package but are "extras" or "add-ons". I myself think even the Inferno Orange interior and RS package would be considered this.

I suppose it still comes down to a fine line and opinion, but that is how I see it.

Yes you did, and no it isn't.

 

Again, I say: get real. If performance is the ONLY thing that matters, then there is obviously a better choice out there for 50k. Imagine the shifter cart you could build with 50k.

A base Corvette will probably meet or beat the Z28 in most measures of performance, and price will be comparable. People who choose Z28 over a base Corvette would generally be doing so for reasons other than performance.

To be honest, on a pure performance-per-dollar comparison in the ~50k range, I expect Z28 to come in no better than third overall (after Corvette and GT500). If I'm right, then nobody should be buying Z28 purely for its performance.

Anyone who thinks I'm swinging from Jason's bumpernuts can think again.

 

I wouldn't say that it is the only way to reasonably vote, but I basically agree that it will be a decent value. Keeping everything in perspective, this is likely to be a CTS-V mechanically with a Camaro body and interior. With the hardware you get, it will be a good value. I disagree that it has to outrun a base Corvette to be a good value... they aren't quite the same type of car.

 

I would consider a 2SS or 2LT with all the available "GM" add-ons loaded... even if they were installed by the dealer. Heck even back in 1967 when you ordered the "loaded" Z28, the headers came in the trunk and had to be dealer installed. The rear spoiler was also a "dealer only" option. The point being, just checking the box for 2SS (or 2LT) without any additional add-ons, doesn't get you a "loaded" Camaro.

 

And that is my point. You cannot discuss "loaded" without clearly defining what that means, because everyone's definition is now different.

 

A little off topic but in the same vein. A 1lt Vert is going to run 30K. A 2lt vert is going to run what? 37K or so. A 1SS Vert is going to be around 40 and a 2SS around 43K. To me there is no value in this. Same with a 50K Camaro. I am sorry but I think the General has gotten away from what was originally intended with these cars. Just my 2 cents.
I did not vote in the poll. I'll let you guys fight it out.

 

I think that there is a big difference between value and desirability. Value implies to me some sort of worth per dollar. On the Z/28, the press and the enthusiast community at large, won't measure this worth by it's utility, it's fuel economy, it's reliability or any other thing. It will be measured by it's performance. My gut feeling is that you are correct when you say that it will be edged out performance-wise by both the GT500 and base Corvette. I'd probably also add to this list, the much cheaper Boss Mustang.

Now....if GM surprises us and MSRP's the Z/28 at say $43,000, well....the value proposition just changed dramatically in the Z/28's favor.

But like I said previously, none of that matters. Because those who "desire" this car don't care much about comparison numbers, or value, or any of that silly stuff. They want this car and will pay whatever the price of admission is.

My preference would be a Z/28 which destroys, (or at least surpasses), everything in it's class. That's value to me. But I'd want more than that. I'd also want production to meet demand (like the original Z06 did), so gouging can be mitigated.

 

I think that desirability is one of the most important components of value. In some cases, an item's value is based entirely on its desirability (think rare collectibles).

 

Like the guys who paid $90,000 for their 2007 GT500's because Ford promised it would only be a 3 year only Shelby.

 

yeah thats true. Those I think go for like 200k or something.

That was kinda my point. A car in the Spirit of the COPO ZL1 to risk a Top Dog Arguement should be placed above the Z28 IMO. But that type of car is also imune from bulk production or even needing to survive year to year. The kind that could take a couple years off without missing a beat if there was no market for it.

They look good. I personally really like everything about those wheels on the mule. I hope they use them or something similar.

 

If that included Pfadt or Pedders full suspension set up it would be a clear yes!

 

i think that a huge part of if this car is good value really depends on a persons income and ability to spend money a car like this. lets face it, a guy who has the money for this car is going to say its a good deal, because he may be concidering other cars in this price range and other cars of this caliber.when you compare other cars at this hp range and price range, you get the gt500,audi s5,m3,cts v coupe and so on. and a guy who doesnt have the money for the car , but wants it really badly probably will say that it is not a good deal. this is the guy who wants the cadillac at the buick price. the more money you make the more you spend. the less you make the less you spend(obviously). im sure most of you will say this is not true, but, yes it is. money and the way you value and spend your money justifies your opinion on a 50k car. ive learned that when you have high expectations for something and you get let down, your opion on something is drastically altered. so in other words, when you think something is going to be 40k and its 50, your going to be extrememly pissed and upset.