'09 Camaro vs. '09 Mustang smackdown!
04-05-2006, 01:47 AM
#31
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Re: '09 Camaro vs. '09 Mustang smackdown!
Oh, I didn't realize that that is what the number was Motortrend was using. There is no way a 3600lb Camaro is going to run that time with 240hp.
Like I said the trap Speed(at the end of the 1/4) is about 8-10% higher that real world.
04-05-2006, 02:13 AM
#33
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Re: '09 Camaro vs. '09 Mustang smackdown!
Originally Posted by CamaroZ282008
that test was good, except the Camaro always won.
I'm sure GM will have all the bases covered when it comes to the Mustang. regardless of whatever mythical super-engine someone is predicting for the 2009 Mustang, GM will have something to put it to shame.
04-05-2006, 02:53 PM
#36
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Re: '09 Camaro vs. '09 Mustang smackdown!
ok, i have the magazine in front of me now.. no i didnt spend money on it
the reason the trap speeds are so high... they didnt have any drag coefficient or front area on either car, so they decided to run both cars "in a vacuum" with no wind resistance at all.. in the magazine they state "All simulated times to speeds above 60 mph will therefore be artificially low"
as for drivetrains..
for the V6 Camaro they put our friendly 3900 in there with what it's rated now at 240hp/240tq.. they pulled the rest of the drivetrain from the solstice.. the 5 speed gearbox and the 3.91 axle ratio.. they pegged the v6 at 3400lbs
the mustang i assume has the same 4L v6.. they have it listed as 210hp/240tq. the mustang has a 3.31 rear
the mid range models.. they call the Camaro a Z28 and the Mustang a Boss 330.. why that name? the number 330 comes from the displacement of the engine they predict will be used.. a 5.4L version of the modular v8 engine.. they say "Much internet speculation suggests it'll pack the Australian "Boss 290" 32-valve 5.4-liter. That iron block wonder develops 389 ohrsepower and 384lb-ft."
They have the Z28 weighting at 3500 and the Boss330 at 3700
they said they gave the Z28 a 6.2L.. and used engine map data given to them about the 540hp LS2 in the concept and scaled it down to match predicted peak hp of the 6.2L.. which they said makes 403hp/417tq
the Z28 they gave a 6speed manual with a 3.73 rear end.. the Boss330 has a 6 speed and a 3.55 rear
as for the ZL1.. and i quote "(Surely, Chevy will resurrect the hallowed ZL1 nomenclature for this monder-day all-aluminum 427.6 cubic-inch Camaro)"
yeah it basically comes with the LS7, 6speed, and a 3.73 rear
they have the ZL1 at 3600lbs and the Shelby GT500 at 3900lbs
a couple of other things.. they got suspension info from GM about the concept and they are using that for all 3 camaro models..
they used the same suspension setup for all 3 mustang models too.. not the same as the camaro.. you know what i mean
wheel sizes for the camaro.. V6 is 17".. Z28 and ZL1 are 18" front and 19" back
tires.. V6 is 235/55R17
Z28 and Z28 are 275/35R18; 325/30R19
the reason the trap speeds are so high... they didnt have any drag coefficient or front area on either car, so they decided to run both cars "in a vacuum" with no wind resistance at all.. in the magazine they state "All simulated times to speeds above 60 mph will therefore be artificially low"
as for drivetrains..
for the V6 Camaro they put our friendly 3900 in there with what it's rated now at 240hp/240tq.. they pulled the rest of the drivetrain from the solstice.. the 5 speed gearbox and the 3.91 axle ratio.. they pegged the v6 at 3400lbs
the mustang i assume has the same 4L v6.. they have it listed as 210hp/240tq. the mustang has a 3.31 rear
the mid range models.. they call the Camaro a Z28 and the Mustang a Boss 330.. why that name? the number 330 comes from the displacement of the engine they predict will be used.. a 5.4L version of the modular v8 engine.. they say "Much internet speculation suggests it'll pack the Australian "Boss 290" 32-valve 5.4-liter. That iron block wonder develops 389 ohrsepower and 384lb-ft."
They have the Z28 weighting at 3500 and the Boss330 at 3700
they said they gave the Z28 a 6.2L.. and used engine map data given to them about the 540hp LS2 in the concept and scaled it down to match predicted peak hp of the 6.2L.. which they said makes 403hp/417tq
the Z28 they gave a 6speed manual with a 3.73 rear end.. the Boss330 has a 6 speed and a 3.55 rear
as for the ZL1.. and i quote "(Surely, Chevy will resurrect the hallowed ZL1 nomenclature for this monder-day all-aluminum 427.6 cubic-inch Camaro)"
yeah it basically comes with the LS7, 6speed, and a 3.73 rear
they have the ZL1 at 3600lbs and the Shelby GT500 at 3900lbs
a couple of other things.. they got suspension info from GM about the concept and they are using that for all 3 camaro models..
they used the same suspension setup for all 3 mustang models too.. not the same as the camaro.. you know what i mean
wheel sizes for the camaro.. V6 is 17".. Z28 and ZL1 are 18" front and 19" back
tires.. V6 is 235/55R17
Z28 and Z28 are 275/35R18; 325/30R19
Last edited by FS3800; 04-05-2006 at 02:59 PM.
04-05-2006, 04:39 PM
#37
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Re: '09 Camaro vs. '09 Mustang smackdown!
Look in the specs of the ZL1
They have the engine size incorrectly labeled as the 6.2L
Also, FWIW, the 2007 Escalade does not have the LS3, but the L92.
L92 = 6.2L truck version, LS3 = 6.2L car version (my guess).
They have the engine size incorrectly labeled as the 6.2L
Also, FWIW, the 2007 Escalade does not have the LS3, but the L92.
L92 = 6.2L truck version, LS3 = 6.2L car version (my guess).
04-05-2006, 04:45 PM
#38
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'09 Camaro vs. '09 Mustang smackdown!
Sims are find for guess work -- but the truth is it's just a sim. And are like not to reflect the real world match up.
If you want a real world match -- but don't want to wait til the 2009 models come out.
Then I suggest something like this get 3 2002 Camaros, and 3 2006 Mustangs, and perform the following modes.
The V6 Camaro w/5speed - either swap the 3800 V6 for a new 3.9L V6 or better still just keep the 3800 V6, and add the following performance modes - a performance cat-back exhaust system, a ram-air system, and a performance chip. Then you'll have a 240hp v6, 5 speed Camaro.
The V6 'Stang is of course stock.
The Z28 w/6 speed - take out the LS1, and then drop in an LS2, or just convert the LS1 to an LS6(400hp).
The Boss 'Stang w/5 speed - basically drop the '04 Cobra motor(390hp supercharged 4.6L) in to a '06 'Stang GT.
For the ZL1 - Take a Camaro Z28 and swap out the LS1 for the LS7.
For the Shelby - just get a new Shelby.
It's just that simple -- and you'll get more realistic results.
If you want a real world match -- but don't want to wait til the 2009 models come out.
Then I suggest something like this get 3 2002 Camaros, and 3 2006 Mustangs, and perform the following modes.
The V6 Camaro w/5speed - either swap the 3800 V6 for a new 3.9L V6 or better still just keep the 3800 V6, and add the following performance modes - a performance cat-back exhaust system, a ram-air system, and a performance chip. Then you'll have a 240hp v6, 5 speed Camaro.
The V6 'Stang is of course stock.
The Z28 w/6 speed - take out the LS1, and then drop in an LS2, or just convert the LS1 to an LS6(400hp).
The Boss 'Stang w/5 speed - basically drop the '04 Cobra motor(390hp supercharged 4.6L) in to a '06 'Stang GT.
For the ZL1 - Take a Camaro Z28 and swap out the LS1 for the LS7.
For the Shelby - just get a new Shelby.
It's just that simple -- and you'll get more realistic results.
04-05-2006, 05:28 PM
#39
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Location: Houston
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Re: '09 Camaro vs. '09 Mustang smackdown!
Originally Posted by krj-1168
I personally believe the base Camaro will get the 240hp 3.9L V6 to challenge the base V6 'Stang.
The Z/28 will challenge the GT. And the GT is estimated to make between 320-340hp by '09. And the Z/28 may get 350hp LS V8.
The SS model may get the new 6.2L LS3(which makes 403 hp in the '07 Escalade, and will be at least 430hp in the base 'Vette, and new GTO). This will be the Challenger SRT-8 & Boss "Stang fighter. Expect roughly 420hp, and a base Price tag of around 35K.
If Chevy does build a Camaro that is a Shelby GT500 fighter, look possibly slightly detuned(to about 480hp) LS7, and a base Price tag over 50K. But truthfully I tend to think Chevy just use the base 'Vette to battle the GT500, since the 'Vette is lighter than the Camaro will be. And the 'Vette with LS3 will already equal or beat the Shelby GT500, in price & performance.
The Z/28 will challenge the GT. And the GT is estimated to make between 320-340hp by '09. And the Z/28 may get 350hp LS V8.
The SS model may get the new 6.2L LS3(which makes 403 hp in the '07 Escalade, and will be at least 430hp in the base 'Vette, and new GTO). This will be the Challenger SRT-8 & Boss "Stang fighter. Expect roughly 420hp, and a base Price tag of around 35K.
If Chevy does build a Camaro that is a Shelby GT500 fighter, look possibly slightly detuned(to about 480hp) LS7, and a base Price tag over 50K. But truthfully I tend to think Chevy just use the base 'Vette to battle the GT500, since the 'Vette is lighter than the Camaro will be. And the 'Vette with LS3 will already equal or beat the Shelby GT500, in price & performance.
04-05-2006, 06:30 PM
#41
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Location: Chicagoland IL
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Re: '09 Camaro vs. '09 Mustang smackdown!
Originally Posted by krj-1168
If you want a real world match -- but don't want to wait til the 2009 models come out.
Then I suggest something like this get 3 2002 Camaros, and 3 2006 Mustangs, and perform the following modes.
The V6 Camaro w/5speed - either swap the 3800 V6 for a new 3.9L V6 or better still just keep the 3800 V6, and add the following performance modes - a performance cat-back exhaust system, a ram-air system, and a performance chip. Then you'll have a 240hp v6, 5 speed Camaro.
.
Then I suggest something like this get 3 2002 Camaros, and 3 2006 Mustangs, and perform the following modes.
The V6 Camaro w/5speed - either swap the 3800 V6 for a new 3.9L V6 or better still just keep the 3800 V6, and add the following performance modes - a performance cat-back exhaust system, a ram-air system, and a performance chip. Then you'll have a 240hp v6, 5 speed Camaro.
.
NOT.
04-05-2006, 08:45 PM
#42
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Re: '09 Camaro vs. '09 Mustang smackdown!
The Camaro times are accurate because GM has been working on a pulsed phase inverter that will create a vacuum along the car's velocity vector. It should be ready for the initial release of the Camaro.
04-06-2006, 12:39 AM
#43
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Location: Exton, Pennsylvania
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Re: '09 Camaro vs. '09 Mustang smackdown!
Originally Posted by stars1010
Your not in the ballpark buddy
04-06-2006, 01:48 PM
#44
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Posts: 184
Re: '09 Camaro vs. '09 Mustang smackdown!
So this will perform exactly like a 5th gen.
NOT.
NOT.
I've never said that the test would be exactly like a 5th Gen test. But it would sure be a lot better than a any computer sim (under a vacuum) conditions. And you would have a test that is at least with a reasonable margin of error(2-4%, instead of the 8-10% of the sim).
04-06-2006, 02:06 PM
#45
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Re: '09 Camaro vs. '09 Mustang smackdown!
Originally Posted by krj-1168
I've never said that the test would be exactly like a 5th Gen test. But it would sure be a lot better than a any computer sim (under a vacuum) conditions. And you would have a test that is at least with a reasonable margin of error(2-4%, instead of the 8-10% of the sim).
i think it did what it set out to do quite well.. this is not your typical "bench racing" .. this sim takes into account a lot of variables