2010 Camaro specs available now!
07-21-2008, 06:46 PM
#31
Disciple
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Clinton, NJ/ Syracuse, NY
Posts: 41
The difference between the L99 and LS3 is a result of the AFM capability. If you read the brochure carefully you will notice the rev limit of the L99 is a mere 6000RPM whereas the LS3 is 6600. The AFM lifters also just don't support as aggressive cam profiles as the regular style valvetrain in the LS3.
I'm wondering what the actual performance difference will be. It is fairly sad to have a watered down motor for the automatic car. It would be a bit different if the LS3 was an option for the automatic...
I'm wondering what the actual performance difference will be. It is fairly sad to have a watered down motor for the automatic car. It would be a bit different if the LS3 was an option for the automatic...
07-21-2008, 06:52 PM
#32
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 162
07-21-2008, 07:19 PM
#33
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: SoCal
Posts: 3,463
However you know very well no stock 3rd Gen would beat a stock 5th Gen LS3 SS especially a 91 RS Camaro.
07-21-2008, 07:25 PM
#34
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 619
I think this has been noted before, but:
LS3 w/M6
422 hp @ 5000 rpm/408 ft-lbs torque @ 4500 rpm (6600 rpm redline)
L99 w/A6
400 hp @ 5000 rpm/395 fl-lbs torque @ 4500 rpm (6000 rpm redline)
Hmmm, something tells me those HP figures are VERY much on the low side, especially on the LS3. There's no way that thing "really" makes peak HP at 5000 rpm with a redline of 6600 rpm. My bet is that the LS3 makes more like 450 hp @ 6000 rpm.
LS3 w/M6
422 hp @ 5000 rpm/408 ft-lbs torque @ 4500 rpm (6600 rpm redline)
L99 w/A6
400 hp @ 5000 rpm/395 fl-lbs torque @ 4500 rpm (6000 rpm redline)
Hmmm, something tells me those HP figures are VERY much on the low side, especially on the LS3. There's no way that thing "really" makes peak HP at 5000 rpm with a redline of 6600 rpm. My bet is that the LS3 makes more like 450 hp @ 6000 rpm.
07-21-2008, 07:42 PM
#35
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Shelton, WA
Posts: 954
Anyway....
Could the peak rpm of the hp be a misprint? Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Are you familiar with the 426 Hemi and how it was rated in 1970? Yeah, 425 hp at 5000 rpm. Do you know what it "really" made? Try 467 hp at 6000 rpm.
I'm really thinking GM is pulling a thinly veiled fast one on the insurance companies on this one.
It's not like the LSX series engines have been underrated for years or anything, but this takes the cake.
07-21-2008, 08:07 PM
#36
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 619
Look dude, just because Ford can't seem to make an engine that actually makes it's rated output.....
Anyway....
Could the peak rpm of the hp be a misprint? Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Are you familiar with the 426 Hemi and how it was rated in 1970? Yeah, 425 hp at 5000 rpm. Do you know what it "really" made? Try 467 hp at 6000 rpm.
I'm really thinking GM is pulling a thinly veiled fast one on the insurance companies on this one. It's not like the LSX series engines have been underrated for years or anything, but this takes the cake.
Anyway....
Could the peak rpm of the hp be a misprint? Maybe, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Are you familiar with the 426 Hemi and how it was rated in 1970? Yeah, 425 hp at 5000 rpm. Do you know what it "really" made? Try 467 hp at 6000 rpm.
I'm really thinking GM is pulling a thinly veiled fast one on the insurance companies on this one.
It's not like the LSX series engines have been underrated for years or anything, but this takes the cake.GM only underrated the LSx engine one time, in the fbody. No other engine since then has been and EVERY new engine that they've released since the LS7 has been SAE certified, meaning it makes within 1% of it's rated hp. Read up on it and catch up, it's not new information.
And as for Ford, the 99 debacle was the only bad point. Otherwise, their engines have performed BETTER than advertised for the most part. And Fords can still be "underrated" seeing as how they don't SAE certify all their engines (GT500 is certified BTW). I'll take my 380rwhp / 390 rated Ford stock HP anyday.
Im sure any of you would just as most did with the fbody back in 98.But don't change the subject. The LS3/L99 in the camaro will be SAE certified, it even says so on the brochure.
07-21-2008, 09:43 PM
#39
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Shelton, WA
Posts: 954
Nope. Talk to the Cobra owner with no common sense.
Wow, did you think of that all on your own?
Here's an idea. Think really hard just for a minute, try not to hurt yourself though. The LS3 is rated 422 hp at 5000 rpm and redline is 6600rpm. Now why would GM do that? You're going to try and tell me that THE SAME ENGINE that peaks AT 6000 rpm in the 2009 Pontiac G8 GXP peaks at only 5000 rpm in a Camaro? Really? Yeah, I'm sure it makes that 422 hp (+/- 1%) at 5000 rpm, but what does it have at 6000 rpm? Why would the factory redline be 6600 rpm if there was no more power to be had there?
When the LS3 Camaro hits the streets and dynos over 400 hp to the wheels at 6000 rpm from the factory, I'll be here waiting to say I told you so.
Thanks for playing.
Stick to Fords.
obviously you don't know anything about the SAE certification process. its okay!
GM only underrated the LSx engine one time, in the fbody. No other engine since then has been and EVERY new engine that they've released since the LS7 has been SAE certified, meaning it makes within 1% of it's rated hp. Read up on it and catch up, it's not new information.
And as for Ford, the 99 debacle was the only bad point. Otherwise, their engines have performed BETTER than advertised for the most part. And Fords can still be "underrated" seeing as how they don't SAE certify all their engines (GT500 is certified BTW). I'll take my 380rwhp / 390 rated Ford stock HP anyday. Im sure any of you would just as most did with the fbody back in 98.
But don't change the subject. The LS3/L99 in the camaro will be SAE certified, it even says so on the brochure.
GM only underrated the LSx engine one time, in the fbody. No other engine since then has been and EVERY new engine that they've released since the LS7 has been SAE certified, meaning it makes within 1% of it's rated hp. Read up on it and catch up, it's not new information.
And as for Ford, the 99 debacle was the only bad point. Otherwise, their engines have performed BETTER than advertised for the most part. And Fords can still be "underrated" seeing as how they don't SAE certify all their engines (GT500 is certified BTW). I'll take my 380rwhp / 390 rated Ford stock HP anyday.
Im sure any of you would just as most did with the fbody back in 98.But don't change the subject. The LS3/L99 in the camaro will be SAE certified, it even says so on the brochure.
Here's an idea. Think really hard just for a minute, try not to hurt yourself though. The LS3 is rated 422 hp at 5000 rpm and redline is 6600rpm. Now why would GM do that? You're going to try and tell me that THE SAME ENGINE that peaks AT 6000 rpm in the 2009 Pontiac G8 GXP peaks at only 5000 rpm in a Camaro? Really? Yeah, I'm sure it makes that 422 hp (+/- 1%) at 5000 rpm, but what does it have at 6000 rpm? Why would the factory redline be 6600 rpm if there was no more power to be had there?
When the LS3 Camaro hits the streets and dynos over 400 hp to the wheels at 6000 rpm from the factory, I'll be here waiting to say I told you so.
Thanks for playing.
Stick to Fords.
Last edited by onebadponcho; 07-21-2008 at 09:49 PM.
07-21-2008, 09:48 PM
#40
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: TX Med Ctr
Posts: 4,000
Really I am just anxious to know two things. How much of a fuel economy improvement do you get in the real world with the L99 in front of the automatic as opposed to the LS3. The other thing is whether or not the L99 has VVT.
07-21-2008, 10:16 PM
#41
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 619
I know in the Odyssey (i know, different car) AFM was worth ~2 mpg.
07-21-2008, 10:22 PM
#42
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 619
Nope. Talk to the Cobra owner with no common sense.
Wow, did you think of that all on your own?
Here's an idea. Think really hard just for a minute, try not to hurt yourself though. The LS3 is rated 422 hp at 5000 rpm and redline is 6600rpm. Now why would GM do that? You're going to try and tell me that THE SAME ENGINE that peaks AT 6000 rpm in the 2009 Pontiac G8 GXP peaks at only 5000 rpm in a Camaro? Really? Yeah, I'm sure it makes that 422 hp (+/- 1%) at 5000 rpm, but what does it have at 6000 rpm? Why would the factory redline be 6600 rpm if there was no more power to be had there?
When the LS3 Camaro hits the streets and dynos over 400 hp to the wheels at 6000 rpm from the factory, I'll be here waiting to say I told you so.
Thanks for playing.
Stick to Fords.
Wow, did you think of that all on your own?
Here's an idea. Think really hard just for a minute, try not to hurt yourself though. The LS3 is rated 422 hp at 5000 rpm and redline is 6600rpm. Now why would GM do that? You're going to try and tell me that THE SAME ENGINE that peaks AT 6000 rpm in the 2009 Pontiac G8 GXP peaks at only 5000 rpm in a Camaro? Really? Yeah, I'm sure it makes that 422 hp (+/- 1%) at 5000 rpm, but what does it have at 6000 rpm? Why would the factory redline be 6600 rpm if there was no more power to be had there?
When the LS3 Camaro hits the streets and dynos over 400 hp to the wheels at 6000 rpm from the factory, I'll be here waiting to say I told you so.
Thanks for playing.
Stick to Fords.
it's obviously a misprint of some sort.the corvette has 430 hp stock, and squeezed out a measly 6hp with the available exhaust. Yet, the camaro will pump out over 440 hp and trapping only 108's stock down to the paper filter. ok you win, the SAE certification process that costs the manufacturers a good amount of $$ and time is farce. it obviously makes so much more sense now that I wrote it all out.
07-21-2008, 10:41 PM
#43
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Shelton, WA
Posts: 954
keep telling yourself that. it's obviously a misprint of some sort.
the corvette has 430 hp stock, and squeezed out a measly 6hp with the available exhaust. Yet, the camaro will pump out over 440 hp and trapping only 108's stock down to the paper filter. ok you win, the SAE certification process that costs the manufacturers a good amount of $$ and time is farce. it obviously makes so much more sense now that I wrote it all out.
it's obviously a misprint of some sort.the corvette has 430 hp stock, and squeezed out a measly 6hp with the available exhaust. Yet, the camaro will pump out over 440 hp and trapping only 108's stock down to the paper filter. ok you win, the SAE certification process that costs the manufacturers a good amount of $$ and time is farce. it obviously makes so much more sense now that I wrote it all out.
07-21-2008, 11:13 PM
#45
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Northeastern Ohio
Posts: 388
Sure hope that they bring a Z28 to the table with some real power. I didn't think I would actually be disappointed when they finally revealed it. As least mention something about a more powerful model..