Welcome to the forward thinking society. There's aspirin in the drawer for your retro induced headache and beer on tap to keep your imagination humming along.

 

OK, good argument, BUT....you can also classify the exterior of a car as styling, which is a subjective and chronologically, or periodically, based element.

If we used the art analogy, if painters and fine artists stated painting once again in cubism (the rest of you have to look that up on your own...its late) would that not be considered 'retro' or do we conveniently excuse ourselves from that label by attaching the prefix "neo-"? If you're doing what someone else has already done....I dunno, I just don't buy the one step backwards-two steps forwards justification.

Maybe it's just my personal conviction against that entire philosophy.

 

No kidding. I have damn near given up. Everyone just wants to hear each other say how great it is. No one wants to think about possible ramifications for this road (I guess I can understand that). I like the "if you think it is retro, you should be shot" statements.

 

Yeah, loved that one too, showed a real level of higher 'edumacation'...

 

Don't forget that after the 60's, a great deal changed in the automotive landscape that doesn't allow for or make possible the large, lavish cars of the past that are thought to be "beautiful". Things change and weather it is government regulations or intense competition, the designs change with them.

About your last statement, I totally agree but you seem to think that the only possible option or road to take is imitation and isn't that what everyone criticizes America about doing and what got them in the design mess they are in?

 

I love this thread. What I love even more is all the people who are in opposition to the new concept. There obviously isn't going to be another concept made, so no matter how much they revise it... it will still look like a modernized 1st Gen. You don't have to like the concept, but anyone who is a true Camaro enthusiast will be able to appreciate what GM has done here.

I would like to see at least one decent illustration that embodies the vision of those that oppose the new concept. What would a completely original camaro have looked like without borrowing anything from the previous generations? I can tell you that it wouldn't have looked anything like a Camaro... why even attach the Camaro name to it? Why the heck do we even have 4 generations of Camaros? I think what some people really don't like is the new concept doesn't look like the generation of camaro that they own or like. I think most were expecting an updated 4th gen, right? Well you ain't gettin' it! If they produce this concept, then I be getting exactly what I want
To those who can't appreciate the new concept, I'm sorry, your opinions and arguments can't change the fact that you've already lost.

 

I agree with the retro opinion. IMO, it's not retro at all. The mustang and challeger, they are retro, with almost exact likeness, but while these pics do show some likeness 2 older camaros, they aren't retro. You want to keep some "styling cues" so that people recognize the line and see it 4 what it is. If you revolutionzie ur car every 2 years, then where's the history, the legend, the passion for the car itself? I've always loved camaro, and this car SCREAMS CAMARO to me, and for that, I think it is 1 he!!uva car.

watch out ford!

 

Once again you are one of the people who is thinking in absolutes. You think that it either has to be retro or not look like a Camaro at all. Everyone here, and I mean everyone knows that it has to look like a Camaro. How about this for an idea, you can have heritage cues included in the design without drawing heavily off one specific model. Rumor has it that this has been done before. Does every past Camaro say "Camaro"? Yes. Do they all look like 1st gens? No.

This is why I changed my sig.

 

The concept Camaro looks funny, cartoon like even. I like the sleek 4th gen much better. The 3rd gen rocks also. I can't imagine why everyone is going back to these retro-box styles! So un-aerodynamic. How many 60 year old baby boomers are looking for a sports car anyway? They should be targeting the 20-40 crowd. And I wonder why only 400 hp? All the other new sports cars seem to have more hp than that.

And what happened to the japanese? They must have been gulping electric coolaid. Their concept cars are absolutely insane looking (Mazda Kabura, Mitsubishi Concept-CT MIEV, Nissan Urge.) I think all the new designs look like bad cartoons!

The best newish car is the Pontiac Soltice. It's beautiful! Even if it is a 2 seater beater. I wouldn't want to be in one when an SUV hits it though...

2006 North American International Auto Show (Pics!):
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...y=DETROITINDEX

 

I do enjoy thinking in absolutes sometimes, but actually I don't think it has to be retro. I am biased and I do think the '69 is the best looking Camaro of all time, so of course thats why I love the concept. I would have been happy to have seen a camaro concept that had styling cues from the 3rd or 4th gen camaros, but thats not the reality of the concept. What generations would you have wanted heritage cues from if they had developed the concept you expected? What would the overall body shape have been like? I really would enjoy seeing a good illustration as I mentioned before.

Sometimes you have to go back to your roots to able to start out new again and the Camaro has just come full circle. This happens all the time in the fashion industry. If you stick around another 20 years you'll probably get to see the Camaro you were waiting for... and you will be able to give thanks to the 1st gen design for starting it all and to the 5th gen cars for keeping the name alive. All we're really talking about here is aesthetic value. Regardless of how it looks it still going to have the power and performance we all love. I am looking forward to the day they roll off the production line.

 

I am 23 years old and am completely targeted by the Camaro concept.

Here is a quote from an article about the Pontiac Solstice:
"The design is inspired by the romantic era of sports cars, which began in the years after World War II and culminated in the mid-Sixties."
You must be in 60-80+ crowd right? ROFL

 

I'm curious, how many slamming it as retro crap really honestly just don't like it because it's isn't an evolution of the 4thgen, and only has some obscure cues to the 3rdgen??

In almost every case that I can think of the people slamming it are big fourthgen fans. I can see how you wouldn't necessarily dig this concept if your idea of THE Camaro was a 4thgen, as it doesn't have much (any??) of the cues from that design. I've seen a few people (not huge Camaro fans like from here, but to whom clearly a 4thgen was THE Camaro) say that this thing didn't look like a Camaro at all (which is ludicrous)...

I still agree with Guy and heck, Mr Settlemire in that it isn't retro, at least not my definition of retro. It looks like a new car that harkens to the originals, but it doesn't look like a '69 merely remade (subjective...) The new Challenger is my definition of retro...

BTW, 28 years old and will be buying one if it's made by the proposed year, virtually a sure thing...

 

Actually I think the 911 is a good example here. Porsche would devastate that car's marketability if they strayed too much from what Porsche and other sports car enthusiasts have come to 'expect a 911 to be like'. The 911 is still a success today BECAUSE of its similarity to the originals... not in spite of it.
This is a good point... no one's talked much about how the new 5gen solves several of the styling foibles of the 4gen. I've had three 4gen Firebirds. I loved them all... but there were some things that bothered me a lot about them. The incredibly long front and rear overhangs, made them look like Tonka toys. The radically flat windshield was unique... but maybe too radical, made the engine hard to mod, and was hard to clean. And despite the versatility of the big rear hatch... It was a pain to 'help it up' in bad weather. All those issues - wiped away by the 5gen concept.
I agree about the 3gens. I definitely like them better than 4gens, based on simple visual appeal... and agree that is a factor in the attractiveness of the 5gen - especially the creased rear quarters (which IMHO are the strongest 5gen cue from the 3gens).
Good point, and that is something I like a lot about the 5gen. It captures that "move over, sport import!" angry look perfectly in its front end.
I was surprised when I looked at those two pix posted right together in this thread. Surprised - because I really like the new Mustang... and this was the first time I could put my finger on something I now realize I dislike about it - the overly big, round headlights give it a "googly-osis" look like the first Subaru WRX's had. Whereas - the 5gen Camaro's headlights are very contemporary. Very nice

 

No. That isn't true. To imply my own separation of people on this board, there are the 1st gen lovers in their 40's who were 10 years old when the 1967 Camaro came out. Then there are the 4th gen lovers in their early 20's who were 10 years old when the 1993 Camaro came out. My idea of Camaro is completely different from what most people (most of the members are over 40 on here.. or think that they are for whatever reason) think of when they hear the word "Camaro."

You guys want what you couldn't have gotten when you were 10, and may have gotten and worn out later in life. You guys have money and are in the time of your life when you get urges to be a juvenille delinquents and divorce your wives and drive fast cars. You guys want 6 speed manual trannies, a removable roof so the 20 and 30 something women you hit on can see you, and enough horsepower to get yourself in trouble.

I want something similar to what I couldn't buy when I was 10, currently have, but desire a more technologically advanced version of that isn't close to being worn out. I am graduating college soon and will be needing a cool daily driver to make payments on. I want a 6 speed manumatic with paddle shifters, a stereo that integrates with my ipod, and enough horsepower to get myself in trouble (just like you guys; because I'm not 'into' this "zoom zoom zoom" Mazda crap with less than 200 hp).

I don't like the concept. It isn't my definition of Camaro, it is a 40 year old man's definition of Camaro. I'm sorry, but it just isn't me, and it is dissappointing, I'm sure thousands of other's agree. My mother does, and so does my sister, so there is 3.

That's the reason we bought the 2002 SS, we loved the seating feeling so much, we just had to have another Camaro.

I'm Gen-Y and I wanted something aerodynamic like the C6 but without the flat ***. :-\

I didn't want a boxy Cadi-maro that is so big and sedan like that they had to put 22" rears and 21" fronts on the car to make it look to scale.

I didn't want something similar to what my dad remembers having 30 years ago. Why would I want to have my 'father's car'? It's what my father dreamed about, it isn't MY dream. I wanted something that would stand out among the BMWs, Infinitis, and other makes when painted silver like our '95 Z28 does. This angry bulldog of a Camaro would just blend right in. Sure it has its aggressive exterior doo-dads that the expensive luxury crowd would never want on their car, but hell, I don't want them either.

The early 4th gens were beautiful because they were simplistic. If I had to only choose between the Camaro Concept or the Challenger Concept, I'd have to pick the Challenger Concept regretfully. It has much simpler lines, and strangely, I can actually see more 4th gen Camaro features in the Challenger than the Camaro Concept (which is really weird, and I know purely coincidental... please, no lectures on the Challenger being a direct rehash of the '70s Challengers and Chargers, I'm not a fool, I know it wasn't based on the 4th gens in the slightest bit).

I don't want my father's love affair shoved down my throat. I wanted a Camaro that reminded me of our 4th gens, but with improvements in every area. When I look at this concept, all I see is guys who think they are badasses driving dangerously and raising my insurance rates. I sure as hell don't see that when I look at the C6 Corvettes.

I think retro is okay sometimes (ie: Lamborghini Miura concept), but not in this case, because in this case, it involves my buddy I call "Camaro." My vision of "Camaro" revolves around the 4th gens. I don't even like the 1st gens, if I had to have an old muscle car, I'd have a 'Cuda... but let me get back on subject... My vision of "Camaro" is that of the most aerodynamic, nothing-looks-like-it, low slung car with a constantly pulsating *VOO OOM OOM OOM OOM* while idling. I was young back in '93, and grew up in a VERY small town in New Mexico. So when I saw my first Camaro (in 1995 when my family bought our's) I came unglued! I'd never seen anything so sexy! It was like a wedge with these AWESOME sultry eyes/headlights and this AMAZING gutteral garbling exhaust! I was so impressed! In our small town, we'd get people going "ooo" and "ahhh" constantly, and we'd almost always get stopped in the parking lot at the grocery store by someone wanting to see the car. It was unreal, I can only say that it was like owning a Ferrari 308 but with 4 seats, the response from people was unreal.

...And this concept just breaks the mold for me. It doesn't do anything for me. I don't think it is aerodynamic, I don't think it looks like "nothing else", I don't think it is low slung, and ... ok... I do hear the same sound, but that's 3 out of 4 strikes.

I was really, really hoping for something that looked more similar to the 2007 Jaguar XK or the current Aston Martins. I cannot afford either of those two luxury marques, and was crossing my fingers in hope that the 5th gen would be a suitable runner. I know the majority of you like the concept, and that not many of your share my vision of what a Camaro is and is not, but it is just a complete let down for me. After all of my years of snubbing my nose at boxy, brick in the wind cars; my greatest automotive passion, and favorite name for a car has become... what I have been snubbing for all of these years...

And by the way. I don't know where all of you self-proclaimed 4th gen experts (just because you bought one at a used car lot 5 years ago doesn't make you an expert) are getting your information, but the Camaros were HOT AS HELL in '93 until AT LEAST '96. Being cool and all that is qualitative data, not quantitative -- sales figures don't back up your arguments. (Did the '96 and '97 Viper GTSes sell in high quantities? No. Were people ape-sh&t over them? Yes.) Everybody was raving over their looks and performance in the early days, but when people would sit inside them at the dealership, they would realize that the car was so oddly configured (yet well configured once one got used to lying down while driving) that they would not buy them. Even as a 10 year old child, I remember hearing the Mustang owners commenting to my father about 95 Z28 saying things like "Man, I love the way your Camaro looks, I would have loved to have gotten one, but my [new Mustang] is easier to get in and out of."

Aerodynamics is slipping through the air with ease; what you are describing is just downforce. That little wing they added didn't improve the aerodynamics, it just helped make the test driver not wet his pants when going over 120. You didn't write this response to something I said, but I'd like to explain something. When I say aerodynamics, I am trying to say that I prefer the looks of cars like the C4 Corvettes and 4th gen Camaros. "True aerodynamics" would be saying I like tear-drop shaped cars, and I don't. The Toyota Prius may be aerodynamically superior to the C4 Corvettes, but I can tell you right now, I don't want a Prius. I wanted a low-slung 5th gen -- 45 to 50 inches tall at the roof at the most --sports car that looked like a sports car when parked next to an Infiniti G35 Sedan.

As far as early 4th gen aerodynamic flaws, I can elaborate on where they are since my car shows paint wear due to wind in those areas:
side mirrors, headlights, rear bumper, black "mouth" at the front of the bumper, and the area where the spoiler first starts making an appearance on the hatch -- check it out one someone's older 4th gen near the hatch glass; you can see where air was hitting and was being rechanneled to go over/under the spoiler.

Back on the subject of this thread, just to sum up my rant... I think that the 5th gen Camaro will sell well since it appeals to MANY people... but GM has depressed and disappointed the 4th gen lovers who loved having cars that they thought looked great because not everyone and their dog owned something that looked similar to them. I have trouble stomaching the idea of buying one, but after all of these years being a fan, I have trouble stomaching the idea of buying a Jaguar XK8 or something else just to try to fill that 4th gen styled void I'm going to have in a few years.

 

I'm a big 3rd Gen guy and everyone knows it, but I'm also a 1st Gen admirer. (especially the 68) I've had alot of time around both and will always like the 3rds more for their looks/style and overall performance. I do see some slight 3rd Gen in it and I believe that if retro muscle wasn't in right now it would look ALOT like 3rd's because of GM's surveys and their popularity with the general public. But instead, because of the M*stang, we have a car that is 90% or more 1st Gen. A retro mobile in and out. The fact that no recognition is being given from GM or magazines to any other Gen besides the 1st makes it even more annoying. I wanted to see a car that was a blend of many Camaros, just a cue here or there and not a redo of a 68 and 69 Camaro. I think that's what most of us asked for.