Exactly, why would you hide such a georgeous engine...
Give it some color, some shine, and even some Camaro valve covers...but don't hide it....just means you have to take more off before you can play with it...

 

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=424036

 

Is that taking into account the c-pillar would probably be thinner with the addition of a b-pillar?

 

NO B PILLAR. if it came down to b pillar with ttops or no b pillar no ttops i would still go pillarless. and i love my ttops!

 

They save weight.

Basically, the roof is unsupported from the A to C pillar positions. When you put in a B pillar you support the roof with a vertical column and reduce the unsupported length, therefore the rest of the roof structure designed to resist crushing can be lightened.


BTW - I vote for the pillarless design... but I still think T-tops are a critical part of the Camaro experience... which means that a larger C pillar would be required and the size of the quarter window would suffer.




***

 

Someone else (they know who they are) can chime in on this, or correct my direction on this.

Everyone, put yourself in GM's Camaro project's circle of engineers, marketers, etc... for just a moment:

*You have studies that show that 70% of 4th gen Camaros were ordered with expensive profit making t-tops.
* You visit websites (this one included) where some people rant that if they can't get T-tops, it isn't a Camaro.
* It's an open secret that Ford is putting T-tops on the Mustang in the near future.

Structurally, putting T-tops on a B pillar free design means that alot of additional reinforcements is going to have to go into the roof to pass current roof crush standards (automakers like to exceed safety standards). This means extra weight.

However, B pillars mean that not only can you offer profit generating T-tops that most all Camaro studies say customers and fans want, but will also pass the roof crush standards with no weight penalty, which Camaro fans say they don't want a excessively heavy car.


This situation harks back to the "I want IRS, light weight, big powerful engines, AND a bargain basement price" issue. Where do you make compromises?

Just like IRS means either more weight or more cost, having a T-top is going to mean either more weight or a B pillar.

Where the bean counters come in in all this is that they are looking at the profit T-tops will generate. Marketing says you want t-tops, otherwise, the bean counters would prefer leaving the design alone (it costs m-o-n-e-y to change an existing design once engineering's done). That last minute radical windshield on the 4th gen cost GM millions to do.


....So what is it going to be guys?

T-tops with additional weight (and engineering costs) and no B pillar?

No T tops, keeping everything as is?

Or T tops, and a B pillar keeping weight down (and engineering costs minimal)?


(Keep in mind, B pillars can be hidden by surface glass, essentially making the pillars look non existent)

 

Guy,

The solution is to go with a larger C pillar and no roll-down quarter window.

Styling-wise, the "guys" in the pink shirts with loud ties, color-coordinated shoes and effete voices will probably have a little hissy-fit about it, but the business case is pretty darned solid.

Here's my comment to Scott after seeing the car at the reception, word for word:

"I LOVE the car, absolutely outstanding!!!
Great job!!!
That quarter glass is going to be trouble."


My other comment to Scott at the roll-out the next day:

"I was at the Opera House for the Corvette, and this is bigger.
There's electricity in the air.
That quarter glass is going to be trouble."


Sorry I missed you, BTW. I would love to have had the chance to shoot the breeze with you.

Besides, my wife keeps me under control pretty well, and she was there... she's got a wicked left hook.

 

Can anybody shed some light on how this would affect the convertible? I'm picturing more side glass, less roof, and less roof to store assuming roll down rear windows on the pillarless design. With a B-pillar I'd assume that from the pillar location back would end up being part of the roof assembly, creating 4th gen like visual and stowing issues.

For the record my preferences in order are: Convertible, sunroof, hardtop. T-tops and travelling simply don't mix from the storage perspective.

I'd like to see someone make a case for a big sunroof.

 

Well, you can do sealing with the quarter glass and the convertible without the B pillar. With it, the car looks awful with the top down.

To get a good seal, you have to have "Smart" sideglass that rolls down a little to exit the seals before the top drops and when the doors open and close... which means some appreciable expenditure on a window regulator controller with position sensing that talks to the convertible roof controller over the vehicle bus.

So...

Do those "touch-type" door releases on the Corvette and XLR make sense yet?

Guess what is telling the window regulator controller to drop the side glass when you open the door... go ahead... guess...

I forget which convertible it was, but GM used to have one with these goofy looking vestigial B-pillars poking up into space.

Yeesh.

That was ugly.


Errrr...
Why?

 

Your speaking of the way BMW windows 'index'?

 

Who?

 

I remember one of the big complaints about the 3rd & 4th gens was the claustraphobic feeling of sitting in the rear seats with the large B pillars....

I can see how a "hidden" B pillar wouldn't screw up the exterior visuals, but from the inside...holy blind spot Batman!

 

Yup.

 

Design staff.

 

Three cheers for B-Pillars!