Beating the Dead horse(again)……Z28 vs. SS = Z28 TOP DOG
01-17-2006 | 09:11 AM
#16
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,979
Re: Beating the Dead horse(again)……Z28 vs. SS = Z28 TOP DOG
Originally Posted by stars1010
THAT’S IT!......
I know this has been discussed over and over again but all the ignorance recently has forced me to bring up again why the Camaro Z28 has throughout the F-bodies reign has been the top Camaro…
The Z28 was produced for 31 years to the SS’s 13 (Z28 3 more years if you count the IROC-Z’s)
The 1st gen Z28 was the race car version of the Camaro, The SS was the fully loaded street cruiser……The Z28 would out handle and out run an SS…..
Where was the SS from 1973 to 1995?...man how many years is it not produced and the Z28 was still running around
While Chevy claimed there to be a huge difference in performance during the 4th gen the SS was merely a body refreshment. If anything this was the time in the Camaros history where things went backwards….But 7 years of confusion vs over 20 years of the Z28 being the top model is hardly something for Chevrolet to continue to the 5th gen.
I’d agree that for some the SS may be the cooler car. It most always (especially in the 4th gen) came fully loaded with a high HP motor. However the Z28 was always the straight race car. For the guys here who want the stripped down, no goodies all performance, Z28 was your car.
They don’t car the top PERFORMING Corvette the Corvette SS….that’s blasphemy…Its been the Z car….the ZR1 or Z06
Furthermore the SS name has been slapped on everything from FWD cars to 6 cylinder Impalas…
This has to be said….Gm know this….I’m sick of people (newbies) getting their panties in a wad every time they see the Z28 posted above the SS.
I’m not trying to hate on the SS nameplate or anyone’s car. I personally plan on buying a MIDLEVEL SS because I want more comfort items and a convertible vs a hardcore race car. I don’t really want a 500hp car, nor do I want to pay today high premium for one these days.
This is my opening statement…..I have my flame suit on…..I’m ready to win the ensuing debate….bring on the discussion…but remember….
"Any Chevrolet can be an SS... Only a Camaro can be a Z/28!"
(flame suit on)
I know this has been discussed over and over again but all the ignorance recently has forced me to bring up again why the Camaro Z28 has throughout the F-bodies reign has been the top Camaro…
The Z28 was produced for 31 years to the SS’s 13 (Z28 3 more years if you count the IROC-Z’s)
The 1st gen Z28 was the race car version of the Camaro, The SS was the fully loaded street cruiser……The Z28 would out handle and out run an SS…..
Where was the SS from 1973 to 1995?...man how many years is it not produced and the Z28 was still running around
While Chevy claimed there to be a huge difference in performance during the 4th gen the SS was merely a body refreshment. If anything this was the time in the Camaros history where things went backwards….But 7 years of confusion vs over 20 years of the Z28 being the top model is hardly something for Chevrolet to continue to the 5th gen.
I’d agree that for some the SS may be the cooler car. It most always (especially in the 4th gen) came fully loaded with a high HP motor. However the Z28 was always the straight race car. For the guys here who want the stripped down, no goodies all performance, Z28 was your car.
They don’t car the top PERFORMING Corvette the Corvette SS….that’s blasphemy…Its been the Z car….the ZR1 or Z06
Furthermore the SS name has been slapped on everything from FWD cars to 6 cylinder Impalas…
This has to be said….Gm know this….I’m sick of people (newbies) getting their panties in a wad every time they see the Z28 posted above the SS.
I’m not trying to hate on the SS nameplate or anyone’s car. I personally plan on buying a MIDLEVEL SS because I want more comfort items and a convertible vs a hardcore race car. I don’t really want a 500hp car, nor do I want to pay today high premium for one these days.
This is my opening statement…..I have my flame suit on…..I’m ready to win the ensuing debate….bring on the discussion…but remember….
"Any Chevrolet can be an SS... Only a Camaro can be a Z/28!"
(flame suit on)
The people have spoken. They're speaking right now on the the FastLane Blog, they spoke with their pocketbooks from 1997-2002.
Oh, and don't be too shocked if you see a Corvette SS in the relatively near future.
01-17-2006 | 09:16 AM
#17
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 249
Re: Beating the Dead horse(again)……Z28 vs. SS = Z28 TOP DOG
Most people still don't get it a SS package has always been more of a upgraded looks package than anything. On the 4th gen SS other that looks and a handleing package how much HP increase did you get and what was added to the car for that increase nothing that could not be put on a Z in one afternoon the main thing was a more free flowing exaust and then in 02 a lid. Not much difference performance wise in my book.
A friend of mine got a Z/28 after I got my SS and he added the bilsteen sup. and the exaust and the lid and under drives and free mods and things a Ss did not get and still has thousands less in it than my SS cost. The only name plate I care about is where it says Camaro
A friend of mine got a Z/28 after I got my SS and he added the bilsteen sup. and the exaust and the lid and under drives and free mods and things a Ss did not get and still has thousands less in it than my SS cost. The only name plate I care about is where it says Camaro
01-17-2006 | 09:17 AM
#18
Disciple
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,479
Re: Beating the Dead horse(again)……Z28 vs. SS = Z28 TOP DOG
I'm with you 100%.
The only reason the 4th gen's got mixed up is because Chevy already built a Z28, SLP had to use something to differentiate their package. Made sense for Chevy to carry on once they took the program is house.
Camaro RPO Z28 should = Corvette RPO Z06
I'm with Sparky. 
I said "SS" on FastLane because that's what I want. A powerful, well-equipped, good looking, convertible travelling machine. When I'm looking for another track car, I'll be looking for a used Z06.
Many of the people on FastLane are simply using the 4th gen pecking order to articulate their preference.
My 4th gen vote went in twice (SS & Z28/1LE) - 1LE should get integrated into Z28 for the 5th.
BTW ... where were you hiding all unveil weekend? We were looking to meet you.
The only reason the 4th gen's got mixed up is because Chevy already built a Z28, SLP had to use something to differentiate their package. Made sense for Chevy to carry on once they took the program is house.
Camaro RPO Z28 should = Corvette RPO Z06
Originally Posted by PacerX
Stuff it Sparky, you're gonna lose this one.
The people have spoken. They're speaking right now on the the FastLane Blog, they spoke with their pocketbooks from 1997-2002.
The people have spoken. They're speaking right now on the the FastLane Blog, they spoke with their pocketbooks from 1997-2002.
I said "SS" on FastLane because that's what I want. A powerful, well-equipped, good looking, convertible travelling machine. When I'm looking for another track car, I'll be looking for a used Z06.
Many of the people on FastLane are simply using the 4th gen pecking order to articulate their preference.
My 4th gen vote went in twice (SS & Z28/1LE) - 1LE should get integrated into Z28 for the 5th.
BTW ... where were you hiding all unveil weekend? We were looking to meet you.
Last edited by poSSum; 01-17-2006 at 09:26 AM.
01-17-2006 | 09:24 AM
#19
Registered User
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,801
From: Nashville, TN
Re: Beating the Dead horse(again)……Z28 vs. SS = Z28 TOP DOG
Originally Posted by stars1010
THAT’S IT!......
I know this has been discussed over and over again but all the ignorance recently has forced me to bring up again why the Camaro Z28 has throughout the F-bodies reign has been the top Camaro…
The Z28 was produced for 31 years to the SS’s 13 (Z28 3 more years if you count the IROC-Z’s)
The 1st gen Z28 was the race car version of the Camaro, The SS was the fully loaded street cruiser……The Z28 would out handle and out run an SS…..
Where was the SS from 1973 to 1995?...man how many years is it not produced and the Z28 was still running around
While Chevy claimed there to be a huge difference in performance during the 4th gen the SS was merely a body refreshment. If anything this was the time in the Camaros history where things went backwards….But 7 years of confusion vs over 20 years of the Z28 being the top model is hardly something for Chevrolet to continue to the 5th gen.
I’d agree that for some the SS may be the cooler car. It most always (especially in the 4th gen) came fully loaded with a high HP motor. However the Z28 was always the straight race car. For the guys here who want the stripped down, no goodies all performance, Z28 was your car.
They don’t car the top PERFORMING Corvette the Corvette SS….that’s blasphemy…Its been the Z car….the ZR1 or Z06
Furthermore the SS name has been slapped on everything from FWD cars to 6 cylinder Impalas…
This has to be said….Gm know this….I’m sick of people (newbies) getting their panties in a wad every time they see the Z28 posted above the SS.
I’m not trying to hate on the SS nameplate or anyone’s car. I personally plan on buying a MIDLEVEL SS because I want more comfort items and a convertible vs a hardcore race car. I don’t really want a 500hp car, nor do I want to pay today high premium for one these days.
This is my opening statement…..I have my flame suit on…..I’m ready to win the ensuing debate….bring on the discussion…but remember….
"Any Chevrolet can be an SS... Only a Camaro can be a Z/28!"
(flame suit on)
I know this has been discussed over and over again but all the ignorance recently has forced me to bring up again why the Camaro Z28 has throughout the F-bodies reign has been the top Camaro…
The Z28 was produced for 31 years to the SS’s 13 (Z28 3 more years if you count the IROC-Z’s)
The 1st gen Z28 was the race car version of the Camaro, The SS was the fully loaded street cruiser……The Z28 would out handle and out run an SS…..
Where was the SS from 1973 to 1995?...man how many years is it not produced and the Z28 was still running around
While Chevy claimed there to be a huge difference in performance during the 4th gen the SS was merely a body refreshment. If anything this was the time in the Camaros history where things went backwards….But 7 years of confusion vs over 20 years of the Z28 being the top model is hardly something for Chevrolet to continue to the 5th gen.
I’d agree that for some the SS may be the cooler car. It most always (especially in the 4th gen) came fully loaded with a high HP motor. However the Z28 was always the straight race car. For the guys here who want the stripped down, no goodies all performance, Z28 was your car.
They don’t car the top PERFORMING Corvette the Corvette SS….that’s blasphemy…Its been the Z car….the ZR1 or Z06
Furthermore the SS name has been slapped on everything from FWD cars to 6 cylinder Impalas…
This has to be said….Gm know this….I’m sick of people (newbies) getting their panties in a wad every time they see the Z28 posted above the SS.
I’m not trying to hate on the SS nameplate or anyone’s car. I personally plan on buying a MIDLEVEL SS because I want more comfort items and a convertible vs a hardcore race car. I don’t really want a 500hp car, nor do I want to pay today high premium for one these days.
This is my opening statement…..I have my flame suit on…..I’m ready to win the ensuing debate….bring on the discussion…but remember….
"Any Chevrolet can be an SS... Only a Camaro can be a Z/28!"
(flame suit on)
Great post. I agree 100%, especially with the SS name being whored out to all other products. A Corvette SS would be blasphemy. If this were 15 years ago and Z26 and Z34 and all those other numbers were being stuck on the sides of Cavaliers and Berettas then I would agree with the SS crowd that it needs to be the top Camaro. But in TODAY's climate, SS doesn't mean what I think we want it to mean.
I'd like to also add that while the 1st gen SS had the biggest motors with the most HP, the Z/28 was limited to 5 liters due to to Trans Am rules at the time. When Trans Am lifted its production motor rules...and as the big block went the way of the dinosaurs...the Z28 became the top Camaro and stayed that way for over 25 years (if you don't exclude the IROC-Z years, since the IROC was originally just a Z28 option package).
I do not advocate the two models switching places. I advocate leaving the SS where it is in the lineup, and taking the Z from basic bland boring entry level V8 model and getting it back to what it used to be, the LEGEND.
Z28 used to mean something before 1996. GM, let it mean something again.
Since the LS1 cars debuted, the SS has really been the fully loaded grand touring Camaro, while the Z was just the entry level V8 w/little distinction from the V6 cars. A name like Z28 doesn't belong on such a model. Lets just bring back a "Camaro V8" and move the Z where it belongs, as a purposeful street legal race car, and the SS can still be the big power full optioned out Saturday night street hero car. The Z will just have more HP and more brakes, etc.
Its interesting during the last few years more SS's were sold than Z28's. Why? Because nobody wants a boring looking car. So make the SS what it was, but lets stop the horror of the cheapened Z28 name please. The highest performing model is supposed to be the lowest volume, not the other way around.
01-17-2006 | 09:26 AM
#20
Registered User
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,801
From: Nashville, TN
Re: Beating the Dead horse(again)……Z28 vs. SS = Z28 TOP DOG
Originally Posted by poSSum
I'm with you 100%.
BTW ... where were you hiding all unveil weekend? We were looking to meet you.
BTW ... where were you hiding all unveil weekend? We were looking to meet you.
01-17-2006 | 09:33 AM
#21
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 249
Re: Beating the Dead horse(again)……Z28 vs. SS = Z28 TOP DOG
Originally Posted by Chris 96 WS6
No chit...I never did find him either.
The SS badge is tainted.
01-17-2006 | 10:00 AM
#23
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,179
From: Chicagoland IL
Re: Beating the Dead horse(again)……Z28 vs. SS = Z28 TOP DOG
Originally Posted by PacerX
Stuff it Sparky, you're gonna lose this one.
The people have spoken. They're speaking right now on the the FastLane Blog, they spoke with their pocketbooks from 1997-2002.
Oh, and don't be too shocked if you see a Corvette SS in the relatively near future.
The people have spoken. They're speaking right now on the the FastLane Blog, they spoke with their pocketbooks from 1997-2002.
Oh, and don't be too shocked if you see a Corvette SS in the relatively near future.
Anyway, I'm with poSSum, I've noticed that alot of SSOA members want (and want to prove it with their pocketbooks), a Z/28 'track car'. And to repeat poSSum again, where were you last week, we were looking for you.
01-17-2006 | 10:32 AM
#24
Registered User
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,801
From: Nashville, TN
Re: Beating the Dead horse(again)……Z28 vs. SS = Z28 TOP DOG
Originally Posted by PacerX
Stuff it Sparky, you're gonna lose this one.
The people have spoken. They're speaking right now on the the FastLane Blog, they spoke with their pocketbooks from 1997-2002.
Oh, and don't be too shocked if you see a Corvette SS in the relatively near future.
The people have spoken. They're speaking right now on the the FastLane Blog, they spoke with their pocketbooks from 1997-2002.
Oh, and don't be too shocked if you see a Corvette SS in the relatively near future.
1. You're suggesting the highest volume car should be the top model? That's bass ackwards from all normalcy, as the top performer should be the most exclusive.
2. Technically since the SS was an option package and not its own model, you can't say SS outsold the Z28 as every SS was a Z, but not the other way around. I get the point, however in reality is was because the Z was so bland nobody wanted it. The 4th Gen Z28 was no REAL Z28 to anybody who knows their Camaro History.
3. If the SS is going to be the highest volume performance model, then it shouldn't be the top performer or the highest price car either. If your most expensive car sells the most, then the whole nameplate is in jeopardy again, because it means you are not moving enough volume.
As for the SS Corvette, I'll hold my breath on that one. My money's on the Z06 going LS9 and the LS7 being orphaned........for now
01-17-2006 | 11:08 AM
#25
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,576
From: Arlington, Texas
Re: Beating the Dead horse(again)……Z28 vs. SS = Z28 TOP DOG
What's wrong with the Mustang model? Base V6<Bang for the buck V8<Top Performer? I'd guess the V6 has the most sales, followed by the the GT, and lastly, in a very distant 3rd in terms of % of total sales, the GT-500 (or Cobra if you want to use the last couple of years sales numbers). Sure on paper the Cobra didn't account for much of a percentage, but they were the halo cars, and they sold a bunch of them at much higher prices than the base and GT cars.
Although it's also interesting to note that Ford had only one vehicle line w/ a GT trim (ala Z28), but several models of SVT vehicles (SS). Hmmmmmmm Top dog=SVT=SS??
Although it's also interesting to note that Ford had only one vehicle line w/ a GT trim (ala Z28), but several models of SVT vehicles (SS). Hmmmmmmm Top dog=SVT=SS??
01-17-2006 | 11:19 AM
#26
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,576
From: Arlington, Texas
Re: Beating the Dead horse(again)……Z28 vs. SS = Z28 TOP DOG
What's really interesting to me is the competition of SS vs Z28, which one is better, blah blah blah. When they first co-existed, they were set up to do 2 totally different things! One may be better at this, while the other may be better at that. I don't remember there being any of this discussion back then. Heck, if you asked me today if I'd rather have a 1970 SS 396 or a 1970 Z28 LT-1....H*LL, I wouldn't care, they're BOTH cool.
I think the biggest problem with this argument is that it seems to be based on recent history only, and the fact that the 4th gen Z28 was really nothing more than a V8 base Camaro. When the SS appeared, this fact was painfully obvious. How did the Firebird line, which sold a fraction of Camaro sales, score a different front and rear end, spoiler, and seats for the Trans Am to differentiate it from the base Firebird and Formula, but Camaro couldn't get the same thing to make the Z28 something special?
I think the biggest problem with this argument is that it seems to be based on recent history only, and the fact that the 4th gen Z28 was really nothing more than a V8 base Camaro. When the SS appeared, this fact was painfully obvious. How did the Firebird line, which sold a fraction of Camaro sales, score a different front and rear end, spoiler, and seats for the Trans Am to differentiate it from the base Firebird and Formula, but Camaro couldn't get the same thing to make the Z28 something special?
01-17-2006 | 11:43 AM
#28
Registered User
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,801
From: Nashville, TN
Re: Beating the Dead horse(again)……Z28 vs. SS = Z28 TOP DOG
Originally Posted by CLEAN
I think the biggest problem with this argument is that it seems to be based on recent history only, and the fact that the 4th gen Z28 was really nothing more than a V8 base Camaro. When the SS appeared, this fact was painfully obvious. How did the Firebird line, which sold a fraction of Camaro sales, score a different front and rear end, spoiler, and seats for the Trans Am to differentiate it from the base Firebird and Formula, but Camaro couldn't get the same thing to make the Z28 something special?
But they failed in execution. Maybe Scott has some insight but IMO they dumbed down the Z rather than spiffing up the base cars.
01-17-2006 | 11:54 AM
#29
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 2,576
From: Arlington, Texas
Re: Beating the Dead horse(again)……Z28 vs. SS = Z28 TOP DOG
Originally Posted by Chris 96 WS6
I seem to remember from all the press in 1993 that the RS was so successful that with the 4th gen they wanted to continue the idea of the base car looking like the Z28...buyers wanted it that way.
But they failed in execution. Maybe Scott has some insight but IMO they dumbed down the Z rather than spiffing up the base cars.
But they failed in execution. Maybe Scott has some insight but IMO they dumbed down the Z rather than spiffing up the base cars.
01-17-2006 | 12:01 PM
#30
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 133
Re: Beating the Dead horse(again)……Z28 vs. SS = Z28 TOP DOG
Originally Posted by stars1010
THAT’S IT!......
I know this has been discussed over and over again but all the ignorance recently has forced me to bring up again why the Camaro Z28 has throughout the F-bodies reign has been the top Camaro…
The Z28 was produced for 31 years to the SS’s 13 (Z28 3 more years if you count the IROC-Z’s)
The 1st gen Z28 was the race car version of the Camaro, The SS was the fully loaded street cruiser……The Z28 would out handle and out run an SS…..
Where was the SS from 1973 to 1995?...man how many years is it not produced and the Z28 was still running around
While Chevy claimed there to be a huge difference in performance during the 4th gen the SS was merely a body refreshment. If anything this was the time in the Camaros history where things went backwards….But 7 years of confusion vs over 20 years of the Z28 being the top model is hardly something for Chevrolet to continue to the 5th gen.
I’d agree that for some the SS may be the cooler car. It most always (especially in the 4th gen) came fully loaded with a high HP motor. However the Z28 was always the straight race car. For the guys here who want the stripped down, no goodies all performance, Z28 was your car.
They don’t car the top PERFORMING Corvette the Corvette SS….that’s blasphemy…Its been the Z car….the ZR1 or Z06
Furthermore the SS name has been slapped on everything from FWD cars to 6 cylinder Impalas…
This has to be said….Gm know this….I’m sick of people (newbies) getting their panties in a wad every time they see the Z28 posted above the SS.
I’m not trying to hate on the SS nameplate or anyone’s car. I personally plan on buying a MIDLEVEL SS because I want more comfort items and a convertible vs a hardcore race car. I don’t really want a 500hp car, nor do I want to pay today high premium for one these days.
This is my opening statement…..I have my flame suit on…..I’m ready to win the ensuing debate….bring on the discussion…but remember….
"Any Chevrolet can be an SS... Only a Camaro can be a Z/28!"
(flame suit on)
I know this has been discussed over and over again but all the ignorance recently has forced me to bring up again why the Camaro Z28 has throughout the F-bodies reign has been the top Camaro…
The Z28 was produced for 31 years to the SS’s 13 (Z28 3 more years if you count the IROC-Z’s)
The 1st gen Z28 was the race car version of the Camaro, The SS was the fully loaded street cruiser……The Z28 would out handle and out run an SS…..
Where was the SS from 1973 to 1995?...man how many years is it not produced and the Z28 was still running around
While Chevy claimed there to be a huge difference in performance during the 4th gen the SS was merely a body refreshment. If anything this was the time in the Camaros history where things went backwards….But 7 years of confusion vs over 20 years of the Z28 being the top model is hardly something for Chevrolet to continue to the 5th gen.
I’d agree that for some the SS may be the cooler car. It most always (especially in the 4th gen) came fully loaded with a high HP motor. However the Z28 was always the straight race car. For the guys here who want the stripped down, no goodies all performance, Z28 was your car.
They don’t car the top PERFORMING Corvette the Corvette SS….that’s blasphemy…Its been the Z car….the ZR1 or Z06
Furthermore the SS name has been slapped on everything from FWD cars to 6 cylinder Impalas…
This has to be said….Gm know this….I’m sick of people (newbies) getting their panties in a wad every time they see the Z28 posted above the SS.
I’m not trying to hate on the SS nameplate or anyone’s car. I personally plan on buying a MIDLEVEL SS because I want more comfort items and a convertible vs a hardcore race car. I don’t really want a 500hp car, nor do I want to pay today high premium for one these days.
This is my opening statement…..I have my flame suit on…..I’m ready to win the ensuing debate….bring on the discussion…but remember….
"Any Chevrolet can be an SS... Only a Camaro can be a Z/28!"
(flame suit on)
If GM was to make a Z and not an SS... I wouldn't care, I'd buy the Z. If it was the other way around, I'm sure a lot of Z fans would happily purchase the SS. When it's all said and done, it's the same car. Let GM decide what they want to do and purchase what you want.
I hate to get into a highly objective arguement like this, if I was asked I'd explain it this way... if the Z/28 was a road racer, and the SS was a street cruiser, why on earth would you want to call it a Z when it's going to be primarily a street cruiser?
If GM were to release a full fledged race car for the trans-am series, I'd be happy to see the Z/28 on top. Until that market is addressed, I feel the SS should still remain on the top; just as every other Chevy line.
As far as my "Newbie" status is concerned, I have been visiting the site for a number of years, in fact actively once I purchased my current '02. Due to an email address change and a forgotten password I was required to register with a seperate username.
Last edited by RhinoSS; 01-17-2006 at 12:19 PM.