All these heavy cars from the big 3 play right in to the American stereotype that already exists.

Can ya name the truck with four wheel drive,
Smells like a steak and seats thirty five.
Canyonero...
Canyonero...

When it goes real slow with the hammer down,
Its the country fried truck endorsed by a clown.
Canyonero...
Canyonero...

Twelve yards long two lanes wide,
Sixty five tons of American pride.
Canyonero...
Canyonero...

Top of the line in utility sports,
Unexplained fires are a matter for the courts.
Canyonero...
Canyonero...

She blinds everybody with her super high beems,
She's a squirrel squishin' deer smackin' drivin' machine.
Canyonero...
Canyonero...
Yahh...yahh canyonero
Whoa Canyonero.

 

Unless of course its over 3600 lbs, right?

I hear ya..there's plenty of road course guys out there. The folks over at http://www.frrax.com are pretty concerned with the weight of the 5th gen too.

But what are we expecting here? You have to be realistic and balancing low weight with consumer goodies and safety junk, etc. all on a shared platform is a hard nut to crack.

If I'm GM I'm willing to lose a sale to Dan Baldwin because the car is too heavy for him when the opposite approach would lose me tens of thousands of buyers who want the kind of car you have to give up to get the weight, and at the right price.

3400 lb F-body...I see numbers thrown around all the time but the average 4th gen was NOT 3400 lbs. 3600 is more accurate, so we're not even talking about a real net effective increase in weight.

But who knows how much this thing will weigh. I just get tired of all the people that pick one facet of the car to obsess about and say they won't buy if X. 1/2 the people here aren't going to buy one anyway due to various reasons, reference posts by Jason E for that well thought out point.

If you want yours lighter Dan you can strip out the back seats and buy lighter wheels. My guess is that this car will equal or outperform a 4th gen on a road course regardless of how much it weighs.

In the end Dan, when guys draw lines in the sand on weight or t-tops or IRS or whatever, I have to wonder if they are truly "Camaro" enthusiasts or just car enthusaists who want THEIR ideal car but with the Camaro name slapped on it.

The car is going to be what it is, and we can either like it or not. My guess is F-body road racers for the most part will be mad about the weight no matter what that number actually ends up being, but eventually they'll buy them and race them.

The 4th gen is a great open track car but if that's your sole criterion for buying a car I think I could find much better cars to race, they just will have some other name on the bumper.

 

One mistake I see being made over and over again in this thread.......... is using the weight of the convertible GT500, as a comparison to the possible weight of the run-of-the-mill V8 Camaro.

Remember who the main player is for the Mustang. The Mustang GT weighs 3400-3550lbs.

This is the weight we need to be talking about, at least if GM plans to be competing directly against it. Do not use the weight of the absolute heaviest Mustang, as a way of making a 3600-3800lb basic V8 Camaro palatable.

 

Dammit. Everytime you post something like this, I get a real bad feeling.

Are we talking about you high fiving everyone if the top model comes in 3,601, or if the base model v6 comes in 3,601? If the base v6 came in at that weight, I am afraid to wonder what the v8s will weigh.

 

I have never seen a coupe 4th gen weigh in at 3600lbs. If 3600 is more accurate, where is your proof. Hell, stock 4th gen convertables are still around 50lbs lighter than the 3600lbs you suggested the 4th gens are.


This is a very good point. I doubt the 5th gens is going to come in at the same weight as a Mustang GT though, from the sounds of it.

 

If it's over 3600 lb., it CAN'T be "the lightest car in its class", since the V8 Mustang weighs 3500-3550.

I'm afraid they're right to be worried.

*Particularly* if the platform is shared with a 3800 lb. Cadillac rather than a 2900 lb. Kappa. What I'm expecting is for the Camaro to be grossly overweight. I am open to being pleasantly surprised, though!

I don't think a 3200 lb. new Camaro would've cost them ANY buyers, vs. a 3600 lb. Camaro. Of course it's much too late for that (Kappa Camaro) now, though. Bob Lutz himself said they eliminated the possibility of Kappa being a 2+2 in order to rush it to market. Ah well, what MIGHT have been...

Source? I've always seen 3400 for coupes, 3500 for convertibles.

And still be well over 3500 lb. (I bet) despite my efforts!

I want my ideal car whatever name is on it. I guess I'm *NOT* "truly" a Camaro enthusiast, any more than I'm a "real" Datsun/Nissan Z enthusiast either. I am a PERFORMANCE (particularly road course performance) CAR enthusiast.

I am CERTAINLY not a strict nameplate enthusiast. The car wearing the nameplate has to be worthy of my affections

Yup. I woulda tracked mine, but it's a convertible. Would have to have a roll bar, it's heavier, and noticeably flexier. I just couldn't find a coupe in good condition when I was looking! The 240Z remains my track weapon, but it is good to have a daily-driver that's also somewhat track-worthy.

 

Go on a diet to reduce weight. You'll save money on food and the car will weigh less with you in it

 

If the top model comes in at 3,601...I will high five, do back flips. and buy rounds of tequila shots.

 

Don't forget!
No airbags, ABS, or traction control. Drivetrain only had to deal with 210hp and about 250lbft of torque.


Heck, the new Civic Si pushes 2900 pounds. My 1986 model (no A/C, no radio, manual steering) was 2053.

 

The weight that needs to be cut from modern automotive engineering projects happens to be sitting in comfortable chairs at the Captitol Building in Washington DC...

 

True progress is the ability to do more with less. Better analysis techniques, construction methods, and better knowledge of how to protect people in crashes means structural weight doesn't HAVE to increase over time to offer increased safety.

The REAL problem is basing these new retro-pony cars (Mustang, Camaro, Challenger) on big HEAVY luxury sedans.

Clean-sheet, or basing them on smaller, lighter-weight econocars (like the original Mustang and Camaro were based on), and 3200-3400 lb. pony cars meeting all modern safety regs would be no prob.

 

GM has been steadfastly holding the line on Corvette weight, while meeting all regs, dramatically increasing performance, and keeping to the same price point. Absolute PROOF that weight gain is NOT inevitable, as long as the will is there to minimize weight in initial design.

Funny how U.S. enthusiast mags used to rag on domestics for being so heavy, but now that all the imports have become TERRIBLY overweight (3000 lb. fwd econocars?!), they seldom mention it!

Lightweight cars ARE possible. US tastes, unfortunately, are running towards tremendously oversized and overweight behemoths

 

I think that the sticker price on a Corvette provides a lot more room for the R&D and engineering involved in keeping everything lightweight. The Camaro is a relatively cheap car, so it doesn't provide GM with the extra cash to fund the necessary development.

 

But the Camaro should be much higher volume, so I am thinking that the R&D costs aren't really much of a problem for it. The base c6 doesn't use any exotic materials in its construction (unless you consider fiberglass exotic), and it only weighs slightly more than a base c5, while having a higher performance threshold, and having a lower MSRP.

 

The PROBLEM is the New Camaro looks like it's gonna be a Cadillac Coupe. Start with a 3800 lb. luxury sedan, and you're going to have, at best, a 3600 lb. "sports" coupe.

Mallet's V8 Solstice, on the other hand, weighs 3100 lb. Figure a GM-developed Kappa 2+2 Coupe, without the convertible hardware, with LS2 could've come in around that weight, I bet.

Can you imagine if the original Camaro had been built on a 60's Cadillac platform? We wouldn't even be here.