Well.... I am a GM shareholder. It ought to be okay.

 

I am glad Elie put it the way he did because I couldn't have put it better.

I'd like to add that for me, there was so much covered that a lot of it runs together. It was sometimes nearly grueling. It wasn't a a Christmas list of what we wanted and they write it down and get someone right on it. Sometimes we all agreed and things were smooth, other times we were not very afraid to disagree with each other and the GM folks stopping being part of the conversation and let us have it out. There were times where I am sure we all had to put what we personally wanted aside and speak as best as we could in terms of what would be best for the car's success itself. I myself referenced a lot of lists that I had printed off, based on the threads and polls that were started to give people the chance to throw their thoughts in.

I don't know if this helps to answer the question or not, but here are a couple of blog entries that I made...

What I don't like about the 2010 Camaro - One Disciple's point of view.

What I DO like about the 2010 Camaro - One Disciple's OTHER point of view.

 

Awesome! Now can we get all the other disciples to do this too?

 

I haven't had the opportunity to drive or get up close and personal with a production car yet so I can't go into details the way Jason did.

Things I know we'll miss:

Things we'll learn to live without:

Things I'm worried about:

I'm hoping that we'll be so delighted with the car that we won't notice any of the items on our lists.

 

See, for me, I would reverse those lists. I could live without your 1st four and I will miss HUD & Nav.

 

Which demonstrates the challenge the product planners face, a challenge exasperated by GM's precarious financial position.

 

The memory driver's seat is a big deal to me. My wife and I trade the Camaro back and forth, and I have a heck of a time getting the seat into just the position I want after she's driven it. It's even worse if I let somebody else drive it.

A power passenger seat would be nice, but that's definitely something I can live without. The passenger seats in my cars almost never get adjusted, so why bother with the additional cost and weight?

Auto AC would be nice, even if it was only a single zone. We have auto dual zone in our Bonneville, and I love just setting a temperature and letting the car take care of how to accomplish it.

I couldn't care less about the map pocket.

The thing I know I'd miss is the astonishing level of practicality offered by the huge hatchback opening and folding seat of a 4th gen. The 5th gen's small passthrough and tiny trunk opening are a disappointment for me.

Well, it does have nav -- just not a big screen with a map. I have yet to try OnStar Turn-by-Turn directions, but that in conjunction with the little display between the gauge pods seems very easy to use IMO.

I have heard some people say that the pedal spacing is perfect for heel/toe, and others say that it's not. I suspect that it's a function of the shoe size of the person giving the opinion. We could make it a moot point by adopting something like Nissan 370Z's "synchro rev match". You put the shifter in a gear, the car automatically (and perfectly) blips the throttle. That seems like a really cool feature.

As for the narrow tires -- the CTS-V is quite a bit heavier (4300 pounds for the auto), and it puts down some pretty impressive numbers with 255s in front and 285s in the rear. Seems like a ~10% lighter car should be fine with ~4% less tire section width.

 

I guess it depends on point of reference.

My 4th gens have never been on anything smaller than a 275 and I autocross on 315's.

Our Solstice is 2,800 lbs, has 245's stock, and we autocross on 285's.

Time will tell but I believe a fear is that there's simply not enough room in the wheel wells to go much bigger.

 

I guess you'll just need to put A LOT of camber into the new Camaro to try to make use of as much of the tire width as you can?

 

Your last line sums it up for me. I'll miss my T-Tops and hatchback. Most of the features you list I'd like as well. But it sure looks like the car GM is about to unleash on us is so good that we won't mind one bit that some of our Christmas wish list features weren't included.

 

Which is a whole lot easier to do on the 5th Gen than on the 4th - even rears are adjustable for this on the car!

Best regardSS,

Elie

 

I think the most interesting question would be:

"How many of the desciples will BUY the new 2010 Camaro now that the car is here?"

I have only been part of a focus group for a vehicles one time, but it was a government run thing which was involved in TREAD, and I advised I was a employed by GM. I figured out the nature of the group was predominantly regarding tire pressure monitoring. I was an "outlyer" because I new exactly what my tire pressures I was running on my Z/28. They seemed a bit irritated that I had a clue and was purposely running 2 pounds more pressure in the rears than the fronts to neutralize handling... They told me I was unusual when it came to this... I replied that I didn't figure that was meant as a compliment as I wasn't helping the agenda. The government got mandatory tire pressure monitors, and since most folks don't keep track, that's actually an OK thing in my book.

I have had the opportunity to have the ear of folks that are involved in some GM car's futures.

There were things I campaigned for that actually came about. It won't be written in any book, no gold watch or bonus check, but that wasn't what I wanted in the first place. There's a Corvette edition I had the original idea for. There's things on Corvette I had a hand in.

For the desciples: There will be things about the new Camaro you can know in your heart they you played a major role in bringing about. I can guarantee you that once you start seeing Camaros on the road, or at shows or enthusiast get togethers there will be some satisfactions that few will ever experience. It's a feeling that will return on a regular basis. Few will ever believe you if you shared your story, but the person in the mirror knows and that's worth more than a million pats on the back.

I have been there, and it's really beautiful.

 

^ over half of us have pre-ordered the 2010.

the ones that didn't pre-order are waiting for the vert or have had major life changes and just couldn't swing it. i think it's safe to say all 15 of us love the car and all of us would have likely pre-ordered one if the conditions were right. i think having more than half of us putting in pre-orders is a very good sign

 

Here's hoping that circumstances move in those that haven't pulled the trigger's favor.

 

Here's hoping we can get as much front camber with stock components as we can with the Solstice.

There are a lot of "camber challenged" front strut offerings in the performance car arena.


And every one of them is a 2SS/RS.