Big Als Z

Exactly. GM made these agreements and they now must stick with them if anything else then to keep a few thousand people off of welfare. Im surprised GM doesnt get a pat on the back or a thanks for being a team player from the US Goverment every once and a while.
Sure, it would be easy for GM to file Chap 11, cut all ties to unions and any obligations that they made, or any debt they have, sell off what they could and start fresh, but then the chance that GM would ever be back to the power or even back to where they are currently would be a hard road to travel. GM started from financial troubles, and its something that they always have.
GM needs to get in there and find thier major money losers. Its time that maybe some of the beancounters are sent in to weed out some of the waste, cut up some of the red tape, and try to reorganize the company.
Much easier said then done.

polo3433

The Camaro isn't going nowhere it will debut in Feburary as schedule. GM has invested too much money and time for this vechcle to just scrap it, and besides they have high hopes that the Camaro will do good. If the Camaro do flop then now you will have to worry about GM future.

Good Ph.D

GM signed those contracts because they could afford to, and more importantly, couldn't forsee a time when they wouldn't be able to. That's no one's fault but their own.

guionM

Dead?

Ever hear about the DTS/STS replacement?

guionM

I see we're intrested in making a political statement instead of dealing with facts and what's really the issue.

I've learned that explaining an actual situation to people like this is like trying to explain world history to my toaster oven, so I'm not inclined to bother anymore.

The eagarness to parrot the dogma of others instead of finding out the truth and thinking on our own is what got this country into the trouble it's in. Nice to see that proud tradition will continue instead of people pulling their heads out their rear ends and trying to fix what's wrong.

brianchevy

I don't have an opinion if GM will cancel the Camaro or not but I do remember cursing the day that they ended the Oldsmobile line. I remember saying to somebody that they missed an GOLDEN opportunity to make it the high quality economy line of the family. They could have been well positioned with 35 MPG cars now but OH NO....

I love GM, but at the same time, I HATE GM.

JohnnyTuinals

I think the Camaro will be DEAD
And GM stock does mean alot since it is almost rated as JUNK stock just like Fords stock..
GM has enough money till mid 2009 and then they might go out of Business.....
With this economy the Goverment will not want to save GM.I would nottttt
When Chyrs went BK11 many years ago,it was a different time.
To me if GM is having that much trouble with their company,I would say lets just kill it.
GM is surposed to make many good cars,but nobody is buying them.
Too bad they were late at getting rid of the trucks...
Anyone says that the Goverment will bail them out,I would love some of the stuff they are smoking.....
And as for the VOLT,,,it will never be a hit and maybe never be developed

8Banger

Yes there are many issues, but if you think the UAW is not one of the problems
then I suggest you take your own advice and dig for the truth.

Whitten

The Camaro isn't dead, it is far from it. Why would GM can a program that they could put fuel efficient engines now in favor of starting from scratch and having to do go through another 2 years of development.

All politics aside here, this being a Camaro discussion I only want to comment to issues concerning it. During the fuel crisis of the 70's the Camaro actually did very well as a fuel efficient daily. You have to consider what most folks were driving at the time, but honestly not much has changed in that respect to now. A majority of people drive SUVs that get as little as 12mpg or poor saps like myself who have been driving and will continue to drive my 96 Z-71 till the wheels fall off view a car that gets 20 in the city to be a thing of legends.

There is a market out there for this car in almost every capacity. My wifes v6 mustang gets an average of 25 around town....25!!! You better believe that the v6 Camaro will be able at least come close to that especially since her car is a 5 year old pushrod 3.8 liter crap bucket.
To me that would be awesome, think about the guys driving Tahoe's and Suburbans like my father; they are going to take a long look at that sucker and say "you know it may not get 32 around town but 25mpg is looking very promising."

Before the 5th gen Camaro was even dreamed up they had to justify what market it would be sold into and what kind of future predictions in energy costs to expect. I have talked to Scott many times in person, and never once was he off in la la land about what kind of shoes the Camaro had to fill both heritage wise or economically for GM. They knew the day that they wanted to bring it back that there would have to be a fuel efficient model and that even the V8s would need to be able to fit into this niche because no one was going to want to spend 70 dollars at the pump every two days just to drive a new Camaro *Cough Challenger Cough*.

The Camaro isn't dead, and if you think it is you are a fool.
I am not going to mince words here because it is just plain asinine to say something like "yeah it's dead, it will get terrible fuel efficiency because GM doesn't think far enough ahead into the future to see what fuel costs will be."

So in a nut shell if you are worried that the Camaro is dead and that GM has abandoned us again...go back under that same rock you climbed out from under in 2002.
It is back, it is going to be an all around great car and it will have a V8 so chill out already and lets talk about something that really matters.


Since we are on the topic I thought you might find this interesting. GM has known this was comming for quite some time...seems like oil companies aren't so keen on the ideas. Beware there is 11 parts to this but I assure you it is very interesting.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XcWuXxDgKxo

Part 2
http://youtube.com/watch?v=q-gd1PMIyMo&feature=related

polo3433

Interesting documentary I can't believe I had the documentary sitting of my shelf for years and never bothered to put it in the DVD player

JohnnyTuinals

GM and Ford downgraded to junk

GM and Ford are "disappointed" with S&P's junk status decision
Standard & Poor's (S&P) has cut the debt ratings of US carmakers General Motors and Ford to 'junk' status.
The US credit rating agency said its decision reflected tough global competition in the market and slower sales of both firms' leading vehicles.

The downgrades, affecting debt worth about $290bn (£152bn), are the largest cuts to junk in a single day.

A junk status rating suggests that a company is more likely to default on its debt.

Rising costs

With both GM and Ford facing difficult times, analysts had predicted cuts to junk status later this year.

But many were surprised at the speed of S&P's decision.

Last month, GM reported a net loss of $1.1bn in the first three months of 2005, largely due to flagging sales and the rising cost of employee healthcare.

Rival Ford also reported a 40% drop in first-quarter net profits, to $1.21bn, citing falling US sales and rising prices for raw materials.

S&P cut GM and General Motors Acceptance Corp's long-term credit ratings to 'BB', the second-highest junk rating.

S&P's outlook on the new rating is negative, which means another downgrade could be possible in the next 24 months.

Meanwhile, S&P cut Ford and Ford Motor Credit Co's long-term credit ratings to 'BB+', the highest junk rating. The outlook on the new rating is also negative.

GM and Ford, which are the world's number one and three carmakers respectively, said they were disappointed with the downgrades.


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Well I hope the Camaro SS will be around,,,But it does not look good....

5thgen69camaro

What about the Denali?

1997whitez28

Worse came to worse the oil companies will save GM I heard that they had deals in the past with certain things.
You think the oil companies would like if we drove Hybrids and effcient cars? They would do anything to get the whole market. Look at what Microsoft did in the past. Hand deals "wink, wink," and buy out the small people.

JohnnyTuinals

Some people on Cnbc said GM might go BK11 next year
if they cannot turn the company around.
What happens with our camaro????
I will tell you when GM hits $7 a share sometime soon........

5thgen69camaro

that makes no sense whatsoever. Microsoft bought the small companies it could incorporate into its portfolio. I couldnt imagine the oil companies wanting to become an auto company.