Nobody at GM is trying to alienate anyone. Especially the core enthusiast group of Camaro lovers that GM hopes will form the backbone of Camaro sales.

The even idea that a Camaro is returning is GM's attempt to please the enthusiast core and of course gain new members to that group. But this isn't 2005 and this isn't the same economy, or world that spawned this car. Just to get this car it was packaged with other Zeta's that have since fallen prey to a rapidly changing automotive minefield. So the Camaro is caught in the worst of catch 22's in that to get it in the first place it had to make a business sense and that meant Zeta family. But Zeta isn't the best platform for the Camaro but there was no business case outside of Zeta at the time that could give the Camaro a shot. So here in sits our problem. To get Camaro we had to take Zeta and taking Zeta meant higher weight.

The real problem is actually hidden further and goes to the core of why GM is having financial troubles for pretty much 8 years. They have been behind the times in getting good ideas to market. They needed to get Camaro to market by 2006 not debut it then. They needed a RWD platform that would spawn more vehicles as a cheaper price than Sigma right when the Chrysler 300 went on sale. GM is a Titanic sized company that moves like one and while they have been able to steer clear of major icebergs for some time, now the economy and gas prices along with their truck rich product portfolio have placed a very large iceberg dead ahead. And why we get a Camaro set to debut with $5 gas built on a sedan platform.

I love GM and will certainly give the new Camaro a very hard look and probably buy one. I'm sure the car will be stunning and probably set new standards in quality and refinement not seen in the Camaro before. I have no doubt GM will deliver a powerful car that handles well. I'm sure it will better its rivals and make many enthusiasts very happy. But I think the weight will always be the cars Achilles heel for those of us who make the transition from street to track.

 

I'm glad that you like it. And it sounds like you do because of the styling.

But the assertion here - I think - is that the Camaro must move away from people like me (for unspecified reasons) in order to attract new buyers.

Well, I like nice styling. So I guess I'm still missing the point.

EDIT: BTW, the 9 bolt is a primo 3rd gen item. See sig.

 

I guess I also fall into the minority. Here is my car with all 4 tires on the ground, just barely though. And yes weight is a big concern for me with the new Camaro, because if I buy one it will be raced at the track.

 

Exactly.



I find myself evaluating potential car purchases these days based on how well they'll do in competition. I don't care how many fancy gadgets it has for use on the street if it can't turn a wheel in anger.

I must be rubbing off on my wife. She seems to have outgrown her big car phase. She has a four door GTP and for a time was intrigued by the G8. She now seems disgusted by such a big car and wants a Solstice GXP coupe next year. She even wants me to teach her how to drive stick. "So you can race it" she says.

 

What I mean is the hard core racer car fan is NOT the main focus of GM
anymore. They are financially not able to just build a car for a small niche
of people. They must build this new Camaro so it appeals to much more
than a small group, they cannot afford to do otherwise. It's not a good time
for GM, FORD, DODGE right now. In fact Toyota may become the #1 automaker as of later today. Don't get me wrong, I sick about this and I know there are some real hardcore carguys at GM that will continue to
push for the enthusiasts, but ultimately they are not making the financial
decisions. Oh and yes I have owned a new 95 Z28, 97 Z28 and 02 WS6. The new Camaro will be in my
driveway.

 

Absolutely, I get that. But again, how is building a two ton Camaro achieving that goal?

 

I don't know why cars of late are so heavy. I'm sure people much smarter than
me can figure it out. Gov't regulations, safety standards? I just can't imagine
a company choosing to build heavier cars unless they were forced to. Fuel mileage is a concern and obviously the weight hurts that, but new technology
should allow these vehicles to get pretty good numbers which will appeal
(hopefully) to the masses. The cars future depends on it.
Edit: I would add that if the weight is in GM's control then the additional weight are features that will be standard
and not be able to be optioned off the car(which many enthusiasts would do). This again would be very expensive
to build the car. Not like the good old days of the 60's and early 70's.

 

Conversely, how does building a 1 ton camaro achieve that goal. It doesn't because then you have a power/weight ratio that will scare off average consumers and female drivers, add to that the cost of shaving more weight off the zeta platform and its priced out of its segment.

I wish they could build 2 versions, a base model like what we are getting, and then the top dog you weight hounds are after (shave off 5-600lbs) and charge you the premium. Who knows they might surprise us and do that (yea i know not likely).

To the average consumer though weight is a non-issue as long as they have numbers to tout off, it gets average MPG, and it looks great.

I think at this point all we are doing is arguing opinions on why, they have made the decision to go the direction they went, and as you said once they picked the zeta its fate was sealed. As to future profitability of the platform, thats not for us to decide, thats up to GM and their products.

 

I think he was hopin for more around 3400-3500lbs.

Bingo! This is the target audience. Sad I know, but true.

 

then all they would have to do is give it less power. then you'd still have decent power and great mileage! i do know your 1 ton comment was sarcasm but the fact remains a lighter car will require less power to met its targets and get better mileage doing it. nevermind more fun to drive. even non car people can feel that even if they don't know why.

 

1 ton? Where did that come from?

 

We may get a nice suprise...

FBodFather stated at one time that the 5th gen is being built on a different Zeta platform than the G8....

 

Cars are heavy because we the consumer want the cake and eat it too. This Camaro and many cars out today are heavier than there predecessors because of sound deadening, more airbags than passengers aboard, 5-Star crash ratings all around, a platform to handle 550hp est., and with it the driveline and suspension to support that kind of power and the extra mass added from the preceding list.
We know why cars are heavier but we also know that had a different platform been selected, not available I know, that maybe it could have off set some of the added heft a car takes in 2009 as opposed to all previous dates.
It was never the goal to be near 2 tons but again to even get the Camaro back it had to be in the Zeta family and that seems to have locked in the weight in line for a sedan that the Zeta was designed for.

 

I'd say pass on a GT500, get the MY2011 GT, should be 3500 pounds with 400+ hp/360+ lbtq, then do whatever you need/want to do with it. You'll still come in a few 100 pounds shyer than the GT500 model. Personally that's my plan...unless the Camaro really is awesome. Then I might lemon out my current GT, replace it with a SS for the daily driver, and get the newer GT for my track toy.

 

I agree with Guy. What the heck is the point of having a wheel off the ground? It's not contributing to the forces going into making the car turn, and when the turn ends, the car is going to come down pretty hard unless the driver is careful. Not that the driver shouldn't be careful anyway, but it's better if the car is smooth at all times, and sudden transfers of weight aren't good. In an ideal world, each of the four tires is supporting 25% of the weight and contributing 25% of the overall forces going into moving the car.

Look at Formula One -- the best-handling cars on the planet, with cornering forces exceeding 5 Gs. Do they ever pull a wheel? No. Why would you aspire to that?