Oh, I don't know. I used to autocross a VW Corrado, and I would frequently lift the inside rear wheel on a sharp turn. If my friends hadn't told me that I had a foot of daylight under my tire - I wouldn't even had known it.

I think Pete's point is, will a 4000 lbs Camaro be as tossable? We'll see.

 

posh = lbs

 

For the folks that aren't interested in a near 2ton Camaro, ^ there's your alternative assuming Ford can deliver on those figures. I have no trouble buying a Mustang .

 

i had an 07 GT. i'd keep my 4th gen over it. which is what i did. a mustang is a poor substitute for a camaro.

 

It's not like that, Jake. The car has lifted the tire because the suspension under the right-front tire has compressed due to the hard cornering forces. In fact, that lifted tire IS STILL making a contribution to the cornering forces through the antiroll bar. That wheel and it's spring are pushing down, in effect transferrring their mass to the friction equation of the right tire. It really doesn't make any significant difference whether there's 1/8 inch of air under that tire or 8 inches of air. There's air under that tire because the car is stuck to the track, not sliding. In addition, you cannot compare it to F1 cars as that is about as similar to road course as motorcycle racing. Yet, I have seen several pictures of air under an F1 tire in a hard corner. They lift it, but only an inch or so because that's all the suspension there is under an F1.

I too, like to hang a tire on an road course. In fact, I just got back this weekend from a two-day event. I wish I had some cool pictures though, but this one from last month's NFME in Memphis, TN will have to do:


Notice the left tire and you'll see it's just barely on the pavement.

 

I was under the impression that the contribution that the weight of the lifted tire makes via the anti-roll bar is less than the contribution the lifted tire would make if it were firmly planted on the ground and its treads were directly contributing to the cornering forces.

Am I wrong on this?

 

Come down hard? Nope. I had NO IDEA the tire was off the ground until I saw the pics later .

I never "aspired" to pull a wheel ... I just think that A) it looks neat, and B) it shows just how hard the outside and rear tires were gripping, and obviously the front isn't too heavy to pull .

Thank you, you get it .

I will actually admit, if you guys look at my picture closely, you'll notice that the front wheels are turned the "wrong" direction . I actually messed that corner up a little bit (started with a mucked up down-shift) so I went too deep, had to turn too hard, and the back end stepped out briefly. BUT, the tires hooked, and I was quickly able to get on the gas and go hard from that left-hander into the immediate right-hander. It's a very tight transition, and it's hard on my big boat at the best of times! (there are actually 2 other tight "kinks" on that track that my Camaro will barely turn around, yet the Hondas make it look like a gentle bend ).

MY WHOLE POINT is that even at 3475 lbs, my Camaro is tough to slug around TIGHT corners on a road course (I've never auto-crossed, but I'm sure an F-body is a real "joy" out there? ). AND keep in mind, I have suspension ... Sam Strano setup ... and Hoosier R6's (very sticky R-compound) ... so the car is far from stock. I can only imagine how much harder it will be to make a ~4000 lb car turn, if my car that weighs LESS than 3500 is already tough through the tight corners .

BUT, I DO REALIZE that GM is not building a "race car" ... they are building a "high-volume car" for SALES. BUT, underneath that, should still exist a Camaro, that has racing and performance as its roots. I think the new Camaro will still do exceptionally well in a straight line, but if the weight is what we think it may be, I'm not "doubting" the car's abilities, but I'm not nearly as "optimistic" about how well it'll perform on a race track.

Good points!

 

All good points and you haven't touched on the higher operating cost (fuel, brakes, tires, clutch, towing, etc.) of running a "heavy" car vs. a "light" car. We're having so much fun at a much lower cost with our Solstice that we'll consider going even lighter (Lotus?) when it's time for an autoX car change.

 

Never mind the sway bar, the cars entire weight is still being supported by the tires that are on the ground.

I can't get seem to insert a pic, but here is a link to pics of a 2 ton+ Challanger SRT8 almost pulling a wheel: http://www.autoblog.com/photos/chrys...ossing/885992/
Article: http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/27/c...challenger-an/

I think that the height and weight would add to the body roll that pulled the tire up.

 

Sadly for my bank account, this is all too true. Hoosier A6s (and any good R compound really) are the automotive equivalent of crack. You feel like Superman when you're on 'em, but they never last long enough. Then you just can't wait until you can lay into the next new set.

I sold my old 17x11s (with 50% used tires) to a local ZO6 guy last year. He has put at least 5 events on 'em and they look the same as when I sold them. My car would have used those up looooong ago. The lighter cars simply aren't as hard on tires.

And yeah, $4.00 gas and 10 - 12 mpg when towing doesn't help either....

 

You guys should read my blog
<-----------

I talk about the costs associated with one track day. it doesn't even touch on the subject of wear & tear, much less tire costs. We once did a cost analysis for autocrossing, and the cost for tires ten years ago was about $11 per sixty-second run. road course tires probably wear at a rate of two or three bucks per mile: betwen $4 and $6 per lap. That's an educated guess.

 

I also did the same thing a few years ago. Once.

I won't do it again.....


I'd be driving Miss Daisy if I thought about what my wheels and tires cost...

 

Aww crap, are you guys telling me that my tire budget would have to increase if I tried to race a 5th-gen?! Geeez .

What about daily driving? Would a heavier car be easier, or harder on tires? Brakes? So this two-tonner is gonna be harder on the consumables, eh?

Hmmm .

And to think I'm not supposed to be concerned over weight (in general)?!