Capn Pete

I think you're both right .

I can see things getting pretty ugly over the next few months. Whether they continue with the current protests they're doing, do a wildcat strike, or strike in September based on a contract signed in bad faith, the union certainly isn't going to roll over and let this slide without at least putting up a fight first. It doesn't mean it will get them ANYWHERE, but given all of the circumstances of late, they're obviously going to be p'd.

Now, once all the dust settles and the decision to close the plant stands, THEN GM will do as they did with Ste. Therese, and try to relocate as many of the employees as they can. I know that there is a BIG push to send off as many people as they can with voluntary separation packages & (early) retirement. If some of the guys who are within their last ~couple/few years could be wise with their money, they could take the package and leave now, and leave more jobs open to the younger/junior workforce so that as few people as possible have to be laid off.

For now, it's a "wait and see" what's going to happen. While of course I want to defend my home town and say "leave the Oshawa plant open", I realize that that's being pretty selfish/self-centered, as there are other plants closing too. So conceding that GM is going to do what they are going to do, I just hope that not too many jobs are lost as a result of all this ... in the long run, it's probably best for the old-timers to take the money and run, and leave jobs for the younger workers.

Z/28lover

I ****ing hate Auto unions so much.

They are ruining the American automakers.

Not to mention, CAW is a bunch of *******s too.

Capn Pete

Who pi$$ed in your Cornflakes???

How is ANY of this the unions' (UAW / CAW) fault??? The truck market is tanking because of artificially high gas prices and a rapid decline in sales, and you're pi$$ed off at a bunch of people who are at the mercy of the GIANT corporation of General Motors??

Yeah, I value your opinion . Get real buddy .

polo3433

I am all for Unions but the UAW,CAW have to remember it’s not the 90's anymore , and have to learn to give a little. Its GM was making record breaking profits I could understand, but are having record breaking losses instead and the Union is going have to recognize that. If GM could keep anyone in a job they would, but they have to jettison some weight to keep the boat a float or else the whole ship will sink.

Shellhead

Umm......actually the fact they are protesting and threatening strike is very much the union's fault. You're right in pointing out that the truck market has tanked - it sure has. GM is making an adjustment because of that. It's not good for anyone, not the for the company, not for the suppliers and not for the union members. BUT, they don't have to protest - and they don't have act as though they are entitled to their jobs no matter what. The market changed and some folks are losing their jobs - it's unfortunate and anyone in any industry is in the same situation.

And as far as GIANT General Motors........so they're a big company, so what? People always act like GM is some faceless building someplace where a handful of stuffed suits collect billions of dollars.....guess what? It's not. For every executive they have, they have (probably) 1,000 other employees. There are engineers, factory workers, accountants, assistants, co-ops, technicians....TONS of people. GIANT GM just means there are a ton of people that make it work and move. Those people aren't slaves, and those people aren't oppressed. 90% of the people there are proud and happy to be there and are committed, dedicated people. They're not at the "mercy" of anyone - just ask them.

Capn Pete

Whether having an organized protest is "necessary" or not doesn't change the fact that all of the workers in Oshawa are VERY bitter over the fact that within a couple short years, GM and the local gov't went from committing A LOT of money into the Oshawa plant(s), they built a huge new paint facility, ... heck, they're even in the midst of building a brand new interchange off the highway leading directly to the plant!! My point is, job security looked pretty good not that long ago. AND THEN they announced a lot of cuts LAST YEAR. AND THEN the American Axle strike happened, and they cut the 3rd shift at the truck plant (then they shut down completely during the strike). NOW, they JUST got back to work, JUST signed a contract agreement, AND THEN GM announced "guess what, we're shutting you (truck plant) down COMPLETELY!"

Keep in mind a couple of things:

- Oshawa also used to have ANOTHER plant that was shut down a few years ago (yup, that resulted in lots of job losses)
- the unions HAVE made several concessions to GM, in terms of wages, benefits, etc.

How many more cuts are the workers supposed to "accept" until you think they can get angry and protest? I'm not disputing that GM/sales may be in bad shape, but the line workers are not in control of the company, the money, the power, etc. They are just the blue-collar "people" who require a job to make a living, and have been relying on their job with GM for many, many years now.

And now GM is taking that away.

Dude, c'mon! They are a corporate giant, with LOTS and LOTS of money (although it's declining), but you KNOW that the FEW people at the top (the ones in control) will always look out for Number 1 (themselves) first. The whole company could come crashing down, or at the very least, be whittled away to next to nothing. The blue-collars can be cut, cut, cut, but the few white-collars at the top won't be forced out of a job in the same manner.

Big corporation political B.S. Union or no union, it sucks when you rely on your company for a job, and then they tell you one day "no more job" .

Capn Pete

I think another thing that is probably leaving a bit of bitter taste in peoples' mouths is, GM isn't halting production of trucks altogether. No, just a few of the plants. I don't know how many truck plants in total GM operates, but remember, Oshawa has been ranked number one (or damn close to #1) for many years now in terms of quality and productivity. If you had to decide which of your many plants to shut down, would you choose one of your best ones?? But GM did, and instead, they're going to maintain production in Mexico!!

Is this sounding less like "we're in big trouble" and more like a plain slap-in-the-face to you yet?? At least that's the way it comes across. Rewarding your high-quality, productive workers with NO JOB (unless they want to move to Mexico ).

It sucks man!

(...and I'm not even an employee there ... but I live here ... I know the people ... I know the circumstances ... I know the emotion ... I know the impact this has ... and I know the impression it gives people to know that they're being put out of a job that they've had for X-number of years, while some person in a foreign country gets to keep their job that they wouldn't even have if the domestic company hadn't built the empire that they did in the first place).

/rant

97z28/m6

isn't the plant in mexico going too?

Capn Pete

One of them. I'm assuming there are more. Unless the local union president had his facts messed up, he made a comment something to the effect of "our trucks are moving to Mexico" ...

... obviously there are still going to be truck plants running in the US and, I'm assuming, Mexico?

wildpaws

The Union employees in almost any US company need to wake up and smell the coffee in this day and age, the "gravy train" has left the station and is not likely to return anytime soon. I hate to see anyone lose their job, but all the years of bloated salary increases, health care, etc. have taken their toll on many companies, quite frankly they cannot afford to keep on paying those salaries and benefits. Yes, there have been concessions made, just like there have been concessions and job losses in almost every major industry. You try to make GM the "villan", perhaps you need to point the finger instead at the tree hugging environmentalists that have persuaded our Congress to pass laws prohibiting drilling in large known oil reserves and also passing environmental restrictions that have prevented the building of any new refineries in over 30 years. If we drilled 10,000 new wells tomorrow, we couldn't do much with it as our refineries are already operating at 100% plus capacity. That's why gas prices have gone out of site, in turn strangling the US truck market, which in turn has caused layoffs and plant closings (yes, in Canada, the US, and other countries). I sympathize with the people you know that are losing their jobs, but the reality of the world economy and the financial health of many corporations is not helped by overlooking the underlying causes.
Clyde

97z28/m6

looks like just one:
http://www.gm.com/corporate/about/gl...erica/mexi.jsp

Capn Pete

You make some very good points, for sure .

I don't mean to "villainize" GM, but I realize it pretty much comes off that way. It's hard to feel all warm and fuzzy about their decision though, when just ~2 - 3 weeks ago, they made a contract deal with the union, and then BAM, within a matter of days (a couple weeks) tell the union that they're cutting ~2600+ jobs!!

However, I realize that their cut-backs are due to greater issues, and I don't think they're all related to the unions' gross "over-inflated" wages/benefits, etc.

I agree with you that one of the areas is the artificial "fuel crisis" we're going into (again). What, is this the 1970's all over again?? Have we not learned from our mistakes before, and learned NOT to believe everything we're told about a "fuel crisis", and the fact that we're going to run out over night?!

The other big issue I think, is the un-fair trading policies we have in place with over-seas countries. We (North America) have allowed foreign automakers to come into our countries and setup shop, given them tax breaks, etc., etc., meanwhile, are we bombarding their countries with our products, our factories, and flooding their markets with our North American vehicles?? I don't think so . It's not a level playing field, and that's a big part of the problem. And regardless of what goes on out of country, what happens right here on our own soil should at least be fair, but it's not. We can't even compete in our own market, because of the tax breaks on one hand (to the imports), and huge taxes levied on the other (domestic). Make them play by our rules, and see how competitive imports are in the domestic market.

Sorry, I'll end my common sense (domestic) thinking . I think my brain is starting to hurt!

Back to the topic on hand though, at least we're still getting a nice, new CAMARO in a few months, and at least there will still be a lucky few people in Oshawa who are going to get the opportunity to build one of the finest cars GM has ever designed .

Capn Pete

O.M.G.!!! Under "GM Mexico Imports", they list the Camero Z28!!!!

Wow, no wonder people can't spell the name right. Even GM can't always get it right!

wildpaws

I agree with you, there are any number of issues that are causing these closings and yes, government decisions (particularly the US government) and commodities futures traders have created yet another fuel crisis. I hope in the long run these closings and layoffs will pave the way for GM to continue putting out great new cars like the 2010 Camaro, pushing up their sales and perhaps allowing for laid off employees to be recalled, maybe even tooling up some of the closed truck plants for auto production. I do believe that Oshawa will build some quality Camaros for us, that is the upside to all of this nonsense.
Clyde

GTOJack

GM sales are down to 20% of the US market and they need to downsize. The unions should not be able to dictate to GM which factories stay open or it will all be gone. The first thing GM will do in bankruptcy is make the employee contracts null and void and it wont be hard for the bankruptcy judge to see that is what is making the company uncompetitive.