Even if the Z/28 had ever been tested at is anybody here going to believe such figures from the “biased automotive rags”? It doesn’t matter as the first GM testing (by GM itself) at the Ring was with the Cadillac CTS-V and C6 ZO6; not ever with a Camaro and for Nissan testing the 350Z, as far as I know, it wasn't run at Nürburgring although the 350Z GT-S has been (but only in the last week or so meaning no results are available yet as far as I've seen).

Poke fun at autocrossing all you want (I didn't know people here consider ZO6s, 911s and M3s/M4s and such to be "shopping carts"); people who have actually done it and learned how to do it well understand it; those who haven’t done it or haven’t learned how to do it well never will. Perhaps you should spend some time in the autocrss/road racing forum here and tell those guys that autocrossing isn't "real" racing or that they are running "shopping carts".

 

The Mitsubishi Evo is a 4-dr w/c is a lot smaller and nimble than the Camaro. Its market I think is more of the younger guys whereas the Camaro is more on middle aged guys (there are exceptions of course). The Evo's closest rival is the Subaru Impreza STi/WRX. By the time the Camaro launches, the new Mustang will be on its way....and who know's what will happen....as for the Challenger...I just dont think they're on the same category.

 

Well, it is obviously apparent why you dont work on the marketing team over at GM.

 

I don't plain on going around to many corners at high speeds in my camaro, which is why Steering just is not important. Leave the road races to the imports.

 

why because i dont find the 350z in the same market as a camaro?
okay lets see v6 two seater sports car v8 4seat muscle car? why shouldn’t gm focus the camaro against the 350z. well you could go get a corvette, a sky reline, hell a g6 gtp would probably be better up against it.

why take a muscle car like the camaro in a market like the 350z? it should focus on the mustang and challenger most people who are gona buy a camaro are gona look at mustangs challengers and other cars comparable to that i dont think the 350z fits in there and gm has other cars to fill that void

and what gets me even more is that people on here want the camaro to be an every thing car. meaning it has to be the ultimate luxury car heated seats nav system hud dual climate control all out, it also has to have the muscle to beat a gt500 and every thing else on the road, and it has to be able to out handle every car like the 350z . gm makes many different cars for many different purposes by a car based on your needs not the name. the camaro is a muscle car and traditional muscle cars are go fast in a strait line cars. you want a good handle go buy a sports car.

 

"Leave the road races to the imports."

Tell that to G.M. !!! How dare they build a Corvette Z06 to handle so well,
and for that matter, What about the 1969 Camaro Z28!!!

 

and nashville here i find you comparing a 350z to a z28 when you said it wasnt fair to compare cars like that in prior threads and cried foul when all i did was change displacment in half ton trucks.

 

You must be a market research analyst, or is that all based on your own experience? I have personally known two people who have sold their late 90's z/28's for 350z's. Just because the Z has a V-6 and a comparable Camaro has a V-8 doesn't mean they are not in the same market segment. It is about who will buy the cars not just how comparable they are side by side.

As for your other argument concerning people wanting the camaro to be an "everything car", is there any reason the Camaro can not have interior amenities like heated seats, a nav system, HUD, dual climate control as well as puting down some kick *** numbers? Would that in some way diminish the effect of a muscle car?

Personally, I am hoping and praying it comes with those options because that is exactly what I want on a Camaro with an MP3 capable stereo.

 

Look, speaking as a member of the younger generation, I love the look of the camaro. I think most imports look like ****, but the camaro cant handle well enough, forget it! I dont think its unreasonable for GM to make this car capable of some drifting

 

The biggest competition is the price of gas There are more practical people out there than enthusiasts. Thats why there are more V6s sold than V8s. And a lot more corollas than mustangs

 

So true. That is the primary reason I held off on buying a GTO.... I was hopeful that the GTO would come with AFM in the next few years. Then they said they were going to produce the Camaro. My plans changed real fast!

 

I think you're the one quoting figures to support your opinon. When you first got into this thread with the line "I hate to be controversal..." You threw out some magazine data from your quick search that happened to put the 350Z very close in straight line performance with a Z28 and SS. Which seemed a bit slow even for your beloved 350Z. When people here started to question your findings you produced more info from this site;

http://www.supercarx.com/articles/sp...icle_specs.htm

You kindly placed the figures of this site on Cz28.com as if to defend your postiton that the 350Z and the Z28 and the SS were close in performance.
(BTW, there was no LS1 Z28 test so where did the 14.0 quarter mile come from?)
You have also stated several times that you've owned and driven both cars and that you race. Since when is a 13.49 @107 for the SS and a 14.0 @101 for the Z considdered close? Thats a half second advantage in just 1320 ft. Thats called being in the rearview mirror, or about 75 ft @100mph for math geeks. It's close for those who don't race but I don't think you're allowed that excuse. And don't tell me the Z28 is so much slower than the SS I think you know the two are very close in performance and speed (straight line) after all you had one.
BTW you also stated that you've read every article written about Camaro's from 1999 to 2002 and never heard of a low 13 sec 1/4 mile. Well I think GM High Tech has a 99 Z28 and 01 SS you may want to review.

Just to clear up the price I paid and you cried foul at stating that incentives come and go. My car was indeed loaded with leather, t-tops, chrome wheels. So about the sticker I'm sure your car had but I won't get upset that Chevy sold it to me for thousands less.
Everyone knows GM was pushing car sales in 2002 so if you walk in with a huge rebate the MSRP doesn't mean much.

However let me play your game. You also stated in a past reply that the cost of the Z28 and the 350Z were very close citing the Z28's base cost was $22,700. You mention that the 2003 350Z was $22/23k. Now just clicking on the internet site you provided, Edmunds. It seems the 350Z base was $26,370 in 2003. But again thats just MSRP and not reflective of what people pay right... The $3670 is about as close in price as the two are on the 1/4 mile except reversed.

Well I can't say I've raced both cars and so if you say the 350Z is faster than the Z28 on the autocross and superspeedway and all sources support you I won't go looking because that's not my style. Unless you reveal your sources and I can find errors in them as seen above.

I must say that from reading all your replies it's quite evident that you're here to defend the 350Z more than we are to defend the Camaro. The Camaro doesn't need a defense it's out of production from lack of sales. The last one was made 4 years ago. It was what it was; a sport coupe with a V8, optional manual trans, RWD, some unique American style and history at an affordable price. It wasn't the fastest thing on 4 wheels, heck it wasn't even the fastest car made by Chevy. Now its going to return and the question is popped what will be the competition and someone mentiones the 350Z and then here you roll in to defend the honor using some internet/magazine tests and personal experiences. Yet, when some of us find holes in your figures and your methods or offer our own figures and experiences all of a sudden we're GM biased and guilty of Camaro defense.

Your obviosuly very proud of your car and its abilities, you have it listed proudly in your sig. along with future car purchases. There is no doubt that the 350Z is a hell of a car. Look no further for proof than the local Nissan dealer, they are still here and selling well.
You always seem to end your thoughts with "The 350Z is not really competition for the new Camaro." Then why spend so much time defending it against cars 4 years old or older not even in production? If you feel that the 350Z is comparable with the tired old Camaro then that's an honor for the our old Detroit iron. I'll take it!

 

hey everyone has their style. but all i was saying is autocrossing is short and technical. you cant truly judge a car on such a sharp low speed course. i prefer a full track myself or drag. but whatev.

i got something for you. im sure you all have heard of gran turismo 4 for ps2. well before anyone barks. i will say this. the game is the closest to real life simulation of a car racing around the track as it gets so far. provided you take the steps to make it realistic. cars in the game on the nurburgring for eg are within a second to real life!. you need the N2 simulation radials and take all tcs and asm off 100%.

i tested 2 cars in the game on 3 different styles of real courses in the world. the 2003 350Z vs the 2000 camaro SS in the game. both 100% stock, no oil change, sim tires, and all assistance off. all the races were done with multiple warmups and practice. and the lap times were taken as best of, with the judgement of a fully clean lap, no off courses and crashing etc.

first track

tsukuba raceway..... i chose it for the close to autocross style, its a japanese course short and technical. used alot on the program best motoring. at 1.28 miles its small.

350 Z = 1.08:232
Camaro = 1.08:885

second track

laguna seca..... local NA track, its a medium sized course with plenty od short and long straights with lots of medium speed corners. at 2.23 miles its a medium to large size track.

350 Z = 1.47:059
Camaro = 1.47:834

third track

suzuka raceway east course.... chosen for its shorter length and transitions from medium speed corners from left to right. this track favours overall stability and transition in the car. length is 1.39 miles

350 Z = 1.02:940
Camaro = 1.03:063


as you can see the cars are almost identical on various types of road tracks. wile you may think this is nerdy. if anyone has a source of real lap times of these stock cars on those tracks, it would be neat to compare. i was curious to see how similar or different these cars handle and perform. and i was suprised. i thought on a larger course the camaro would have won, but its dead heat all the way. one thing i noticed in game was the 350z was easier to drive. more neutral. less overpowering oversteer. seemed tamed compaired to the camaro which was a sliding fun ride

so all in all my opinion is this. the cars in a performance standpoint are so similar one is neither better or worse then the other. they are both respectable track cars IMO.

 

Hey everyone, Im kinda new here, but I was just reading this thread. A lot of people like to argue numbers, and they ARE important and all, but that is not the sole reason for why I am personally going to buy the 2009 camaro. I am looking mostly at the substance or essence of the camaro. Part of that essence comes down to its engine, the V8. It will take you as fast as you will ever need or want to go, it has a sound that can not be compared to by any asian import, and above everything else...its...just...there. The 1967 Camaro was about being a tight performer, but like the Corvette and Mustang, the Camaro has a whole new meaning now. They have cults, they have hearts, people buy them for just being what they are if for nothing else. I read an article that said that a lot of people bought the new Mustang without even taking it for a test drive. That says a lot for what the real competition is. Now, where many people are lusting over it for performance reasons, I can garuntee that most buyers are buying it simply because it is what it is. You can make any car go fast from four cylinder to V12 given the right amount of tweaks...but a souped up 1987 Honda Civic is not going dazzle most people when it is sitting next to a bone-stock 2009 Camaro. Now given, the 320 Z has reached the point where people buy it for what it is, but not so with the Evo or WRX. People buy those two because they want to go autocrossing or they want to impress a couple of riceboys. With a Camaro or a Z, you can roll through town and catch glances from EVERYONE. The Evo and WRX look like point A to point B cars with giant wing and air dam lodged on to them. They arent so much about passion like the Camaro, the Z, the Vette, the Challenger, or the Mustang are. But with that given, I still dont think the Z is going to be thrown into the Camaro comparison mix. The real competition is going to be pony cars. The reason for this is because we are the only ones on earth that can make them. They will have a 2+2 seating method. They will all have long hoods with a short rear deck, all will be available with V8 engines with rear wheel drive. Period. And yeah, the magazines will be experimental by matching the Camaro against foreign products, but thats not going to waiver the buyers from buying the pony-cars.
On another note, if you do want to compare performance, the Camaro should be a stunner. I take that back, it WILL be a stunner. (A. it has a newly updated corvette engine that will most like perform just as good as the current GTO if not better (and the GTO certainly rocks the current 350Z) (B. It will based on a cutting edge chassis that will be used by some of GMs top of the line products (C. It will have completely independent suspension, so handling will be top notch (oh yes, the GTO is noted for having superb handling, and Im sure the Camaro will be even more updated than the Goat). Tack on a DOD program and youve got yourself the perfect automobile with two extra seats to spare.

 

so you know 2 people that moved from camarosto 350z's does that mean every one going to buy a camaro is gona buy a 350z? and im not taking a side by side comparison or one has a v8 and one has a v6 im mearly saying what other cars people are going to look at when they buy a camaro and when you look at that its most likly gona be something along the same likes a 350z shares nothing in common with a camaro. will some people look at a 350z when looking a camaro absolutly will mass amounts of people probly not. and for you freinds could it be said a) that maybe they relised the bought the wrong car it wasnt what they were looking for? b) mabe they out grew muscel cars and wanted a sports car. just becuase someone trade in a car and buys a diffrent one doesnt mean its competition. becuase i trade in my blazer and by a camaro does that make it competition?


and for your argument does it deminish the fact its a muscel car? no but i think it takes a little away from the car. whats the point of chevy offering all the diffrent makes and models they offer if there all gona be the same y not just make one make and modle? it soulds like to me you want to buy the name not the car. i think this is why people get so disapointed when they buy a car they dont really look at what there buying the car for and how there gona use it nor what the car was intended for.