Personally, I would be more concerned about the Accord coupe taking away sales.

With Honda's excellent history of reliablity and superior service to GM, i know alot of people who shyed away from getting a GM 2 door like the G6 or similar, and instead chose the Accord. The way American car buyers are buying more and more Japanese these days, I say the success of the Camaro will not only hinge on whether or not it can provide what we want, but also whether or not it can compete with this market.

Not to mention, look at the new concept, I gotta say, I think its a great looking car.

 

So true, at least for me. I've owned several F-bodies and come from a family where we bought nothing but GM cars for years. But my LT1 T/A has been such a headache that I flirted with the idea of just going import and seeing what all the "reliability" hype is about. Its no fun when everyone else is driving Toyotas, Hondas, etc and asking about your optispark issues, or why your pop-up headlights are grinding...ugh

I get comments like "that's what you expect from GM cars" every time something happens to my cars, old or not. I really can't defend it especially when my car is up on the lift for extended periods of time, and not out on the road where it belongs. I've even heard the same from later model owners of GM cars. But whether its true or not at this point isn't as important as much as the fact that the average public thinks it is.

What car can give me the most bang for my buck? If all things were equal, I'd go Camaro hands down. But all things aren't equal. Which car is gonna have more power, be more reliable, lower dealership markups?..My heart is with GM but if Hyundai (or any other company) made a RWD pony car that put down 300+ horses at a reasonable price, why wouldn't I be at least interested? I'm not looking for an econo car, I want a RWD, pavement shredding beast. I don't want to go import, Mustang or Challenger when the time comes...but I will if I feel like its best for me.

 

then get an ls1.

 

Yeah, maybe mustang knows how to compete, but GM completely lost it's way with the 4th gen. The supra and RX7 went out of production due to pricing themselves out of the market, but they are absolute cult cars, especially compared to the small group of mullets who would actually be caught dead driving a 4th gen.

 

Although that will eliminate the optispark issue, I'm not sure how that's going to improve the popups' issue... let alone the pile of junk GM called power window motors or F-body's exclusive short life clutch... among other things.

 

holey **** you guys are coming out of the woodwork all of the sudden. Do people even think before they type anymore? I realize these are all opinions, but holey **** are some of you in the small minority, and about the very cars you are at this website for! Bringing up a laughably stupid stereotype while saying something equally stupid as people are embarassed to even be in a 4th gen and that there are more Supras. Things may appear that way to you, but there are about 49 other states.

I don't care if people have a different opinion than mine on the Camaro, but making a generalization about a car community and claiming there are more supras on the road than the 4th gen f-body is just ignorant and stupid.

Edit: not for you guy, though I am surprised about your remarks. For me, these cars are worth the trouble so I can agree to disagree....some of you on the other hand....

If you need a daily driver because your f-body is not dependable anymore, get one if you can afford it, keep or sell your f-body. Just don't come here arrogantly bashing a car we love, a car 90% of people here currently have, and expect to get off scott-free .

 

Wow, I'm all riled up this morning. I had a sandwich, and I feel better now.

 

I love the 4th gens, LT1 and LS1. Having thought about it longer, I still will probably not buy an import with a V8/RWD platform, but I wont buy a 5th gen either. I'll probably buy a C5 and if the Camaro survives and the 6th gen looks like something from the 21st century then I'll buy a 6th gen. I really WANT to like the new Camaro, there's just something about the rectangular brick on wheels retro look that kills it for me. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I think you would have to be blind to look at the new Camaro and not instantly think of a 1st gen.

 

Trouble for the new Camaro no. Competition yes. The 2 door 2 plus 2 rwd coupe market has grown vastley in the past few years as im sure all of you are very aware. As you take a look at the market place despite crazy gas prices the 2 dr 2+2/rwd market whether v-8/inline six or v-6 is soaring. People want these cars badly and brand loyalty is somewhat a non issue. If and when I have the money to purchase a 2dr/rwd coupe in 2009 I'll def be walking towards a GM dealership...but along the way I'll also be looking at competitors very closy like FORD, Dodge and oh gosh some import brands. The reality is imports aren't walking around in the dark and to be truely honest what GM has in the performance dept. where toyota,honda and nissan are taking notes. The import brands are still a leg up on GM with things that are very important besides running mid 12's bone stock. QUALITY is slowy getting alot better in GMs. SLOWLY...

Today's car buyers with the exception of great motor heads and true car junkies are the oops its broken lets by a new one type. If a buyer goes out sees a "honda" v-8 sport coupe with 400 hp etc... or across the street a 400 hp Camaro more than likely he/she will venture toward the honda. Not because its better looking, or faster...but because of one key word-RELIABILITY. When a person with 27k large in hand walks into a dealership they expect things right off the bat- RELIABILITY, QUALITY and PERFORMANCE. GM in general is a great car company but I can't say they meet all three of these. GM powertrains are very good, but interiors/exterior refinement still today LACK. The DESIGN of interior components and theme is still very weak in many GM's. In every GM car and truck from a aveo to a escalade QUALITY/Design/finish needs to be at the top of the list as far as interiors. The Corvette is an EXCELLENT car...except the interior. I think this new Hyundai coupe will only make the Camaro and GM stronger in terms of standards, quality control and listening to the customer.


Cliff notes: Hyundai will be a great competitor, will make GM stronger and make the Camaro a world class coupe. Imports=Reliable in the common mans eyes. GM/FORD/Chrysler= not so Reliable. With so much new competition on the rise the Camaro will only get better. We know the Camaro will have enough HP/TQ to melt asphault and scare bystanders with the menacing exhaust note...not to mention EPA numbers that are very good. What needs to be established is a Great interior/exterior/quality assured and Reliability. If GM can match all of these, GM will be good to go.

 

Then get a Camaro.

When they die, replace them with one of the better aftermarket replacements.

'01+ LS1 F-bodies have a better clutch, so that solves that problem.

If you want to keep nitpicking, even an '01+ LS1 is going to rattle (eventually if it doesn't already) and have a harsh ride, so let's factor in a set of subframe connectors and shock absorbers.

Under $1000 in addition to the cost of an '01+ Z28 or SS, and all of the real complaints are gone.

I know, most people would rather buy a car without all of the problems, but my point is that if you really want a Camaro, it's not that hard to make one livable.

 

Of course I expect more religiously enthusiastic members to attempt to call me to the mat for bashing their car. And I'll continue doing it.

Why?

Because I DON'T want the same mistakes in the next Camaro.

Keeping silent, and saying that the trouble is worth it is the death kneel of any automobile. When the core buyers of any car start accepting junk, and the people behind making the car going just on what core enthusiast say (or don't say) will continue to make junk, while the large numbers of people who look at all aspects of a car walk away. What's the result? I haven't seen a 4th gen leave an assembly plant in some time, have you?

4th gens has s*it for power window motors. Everyone I know who has had a 4th gen has had issues with those heaps. There are plenty of stories about the 4th gen's rear differential. Optispark has cost plenty of people alot of dough. Factory clutches seem made to go prematurely.

Plenty more where that came from.
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...&highlight=chp

The next Camaro is going to have to compete in the real world, not the vacuum of the enthusiast's universe (which is actually much smaller than Mustang's) because, like it or not, that's where it's survival depends. It's not going to make it if 3rd rate items that GM wouldn't even put on other cars it makes (never heard of rearend failures on Corvettes or power window punching out early on Cavaliers) makes it into the new version because enthusiasts don't rate it a main concern.

I'm not asking for BMW-like quality. But when a high profile car like Camaro has quality problems, it reflects on the rest of the line as much as it does on the Camaro itself.

I like the competition between Mustang and Camaro. It keeps things intresting, and fun. I personally would see it as a disaster if GM cut corners on the next Camaro's quality. I would think that most everyone here would too.

 

Lets's see, my driveway has a 1st gen, a 4th gen, and an 04 GTO.

That must make me 1/3 awesome, 1/3 "mullet", and 1/3 jackass.

 

-optispark issues? buy an ls1 or spend around $700 for a delteq kit
-window motors failing? buy after market ones
-cracked interior panels? tough
-catalytic convertor mucked up? $$$
-rear hatch defroster not working? sucks for you bud
-warping rotors? get better aftermarket ones
-tranny rebuilding at less than 90k miles? no biggie it happens
-fuel gauge dancing? these cars do that from time to time...
-headlights grinding? get raped at the dealership $300 for a new motor, or spend about $90 to put in better quality gears..or better yet, just buy a Camaro
-harsh ride? subframe connectors and better shock absorbers

..at what point do I sit back and say "damn GM, enough is enough" and go get another car?

I love F-bodies, but that doesn't mean I'll put up with lower standards and have to keep upgrading certain things which should have been better from the assembly line. And I've seen it with not just my cars, but newer ones as well. If that means I'm "bashing" the car, then so be it.

I want the 5th-gen Camaro to succeed, just because I voice my opinion about what I don't like about the car doesn't make me less of an enthusiast than anybody else on this site.

 

Its a cool looking car and I applaud Hyundai for stepping into this market but trouble for the Camaro? Nope. If anything, its going to make the Camaro and Mustang that much better through competition. Plus the Camaro and Mustang names carry serious weight and history with them. That plus a solidly built car is gonna equal sales regardless of this new Hyundai or not.

 

That post was not for you Guy, I am aware of the f-bodies' faults. The only thing directed towards you was that I was surprised of your remarks because I'd never heard you be quite so negative, yet true about 4th gens. You bashed nothing until you called them junk just now.....NOW I'm mad at you....before, nope.