Disappointed.
07-31-2008 | 01:25 PM
#106
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Think about how many Z06s are built now, then add 5,000 (or more) engines per year to that total. Each is hand built. You're going to have to hire more engine assemblers (and train them) or switch LS7 production to an automated line. Either way, you're talking about investment here.
07-31-2008 | 01:28 PM
#107
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,179
From: Chicagoland IL
I disagree. Traditionally, they don't want to "compete" with the Corvette. To me, that's stupid...because if you have somebody buy a Z/28 instead of a Corvette, at least he's buying some GM car. As it is, some people are buying at GT500 that could afford a Corvette.
Also, I don't think this car is particularly "cheap." I just think they kept their costs low by recycling another platform...but never past that savings on to us. This car costs the same as other cars from competitors that were completely new platforms.
Also, I don't think this car is particularly "cheap." I just think they kept their costs low by recycling another platform...but never past that savings on to us. This car costs the same as other cars from competitors that were completely new platforms.
07-31-2008 | 02:44 PM
#109
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,979
Nobody ends up buying Z28's in that case. They buy Corvettes instead.
Forgive me for saying this, and i know it will offend some, but again:
If the transaction price is equal between the two, the Z28 is going to get murdered. The market does not view the two as equivalent cars, and will not accept equivalent pricing... they'll simply buy the car perceived as more desireable.
In other words, they'll buy the Vette, Camaro sales will suffer, and the car gets killed again.
DON'T compete with Corvette. You just get crushed, even if it's another Chevrolet car.
The great thing about an F4 SS? 95% of the Corvette's performance, for 65% of the price.
Camaros need to beat up Mudstains in the market... not cross swords with Corvettes.
*
07-31-2008 | 02:51 PM
#110
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,870
Any idea on what the LSA costs?
07-31-2008 | 03:44 PM
#111
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,497
From: Okemos, MI
Question - In SCCA Solo competition the C5 Z06 and C6 Z06 are both classed in Super Stock. However, much MUCH more often than not, the C5 is the better of the two and is more than a match for the C6.
How can this be? (Hint - I'm not trying to make a point about weight here)
How can this be? (Hint - I'm not trying to make a point about weight here)
It's not.
Please don't call it that.
Also worth noting is that the dry sump system probably only adds 3-5hp... I'd be perfectly happy to have an LS7 with a traditional wet sump and a decent windage tray in the oil pan.
The ZR1 is ~130 lbs heavier than a Z06 -- make your own conclusions about how much of the extra weight is from the engine, and how much extra weight is offset by exotic lightweight materials (e.g. carbon fiber) elsewhere on the car.
I read something recently that said that they stopped bringing Mustangs along during development drives, because the Camaro had already far surpassed the Mustang in every way and they no longer felt it was useful to use them for comparison.
Also, you do realize that if Chevy puts a $15,000 LS7 in the Z28, they get to subtract the cost of the LS3 (~$6,000), right?
Both!
07-31-2008 | 03:46 PM
#112
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,179
From: Chicagoland IL
But I suspect the pressure was there for a new Camaro. Once the St.Therese issue was resolved and once GM saw the impact the 2005 Mustang had, Camaro was just plain going to happen. If Zeta wasn't around, my belief is, it STILL would have happened.
Last edited by Z284ever; 07-31-2008 at 03:54 PM.
07-31-2008 | 03:53 PM
#113
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 359
From: Chesterfield, MI
And the Z/28 will probably get the LS8, which is just a little less exotic than the LSA.
LS9 > LSA > LS8
07-31-2008 | 03:57 PM
#114
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,179
From: Chicagoland IL
Yeah, me too. Personally, I'll chalk that up to trash talk.
07-31-2008 | 04:01 PM
#115
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16,179
From: Chicagoland IL
The problem with the analysis above is simple...
Nobody ends up buying Z28's in that case. They buy Corvettes instead.
Forgive me for saying this, and i know it will offend some, but again:
If the transaction price is equal between the two, the Z28 is going to get murdered. The market does not view the two as equivalent cars, and will not accept equivalent pricing... they'll simply buy the car perceived as more desireable.
In other words, they'll buy the Vette, Camaro sales will suffer, and the car gets killed again.
DON'T compete with Corvette. You just get crushed, even if it's another Chevrolet car.
The great thing about an F4 SS? 95% of the Corvette's performance, for 65% of the price.
Camaros need to beat up Mudstains in the market... not cross swords with Corvettes.
*
Nobody ends up buying Z28's in that case. They buy Corvettes instead.
Forgive me for saying this, and i know it will offend some, but again:
If the transaction price is equal between the two, the Z28 is going to get murdered. The market does not view the two as equivalent cars, and will not accept equivalent pricing... they'll simply buy the car perceived as more desireable.
In other words, they'll buy the Vette, Camaro sales will suffer, and the car gets killed again.
DON'T compete with Corvette. You just get crushed, even if it's another Chevrolet car.
The great thing about an F4 SS? 95% of the Corvette's performance, for 65% of the price.
Camaros need to beat up Mudstains in the market... not cross swords with Corvettes.
*
07-31-2008 | 04:30 PM
#116
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,209
But it doesn't cost them anything to put that engine into the car. What you're saying is that the price will be higher.
It's not like saying you want to put a different engine architecture into the car with a lot of capital investment...or putting a s/c engine in requiring a lot of unique components. An LS7 would cost GM virtually nothing.
It's not like saying you want to put a different engine architecture into the car with a lot of capital investment...or putting a s/c engine in requiring a lot of unique components. An LS7 would cost GM virtually nothing.
07-31-2008 | 04:53 PM
#117
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,710
From: Oakland, California
07-31-2008 | 05:22 PM
#118
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,083
From: San Juan PR
What I am saying is... that if you took the ls3 and enlarged it to an ls7 it should be around that HP level... Being a production engine, it would be CHEAPER... having still the torque to move a heavier car and affordable for a z28.
