If you go by sales numbers, and decide what a Z28 is or should be by what kind of Z28s people have bought the most of, then a 1LE lightweight special is not in fact what a Z28 is.

For brief periods of time, in limited numbers, Z28s have been light weight road race and autocross specials. The 1st gen Z28, the 3rd gen 1LE cars, and the 4th gen 1LE cars.

However, the vast majority of Z28s have been top of the line or near top of the line Camaros with the biggest/most powerful engines available at the time. This holds true for 2nd gen cars, especially late 2nd gen cars. 3rd gen cars (I'm including IROC-Zs in this number). It more or less holds true for 4th gens as well - while the SS was the "top of the line" the Z28 was more similar to the SS than it was different, and the 4th gen Z28 wasn't a lightweight 1LE track special.

I think a 1LE car is very neat, and if it can be offered, they should go for it. But give us a full boat loaded out big motor Z28 too!

 

As an MBA I am very familiar with the formula for ROI. My point simply was that GM would not set an artificial production limit on a car that has yet to reach a point in development that a reasonable cost basis can be developed. At least that is what I believe. However should they decide to produce the Z28 I am sure we will not be a limited edition car as the OP suggested. As an example GM has a production target of roughly 2200 ZR1's for the first year but it seems clear that they will build every car they can sell.

 

On the subject of weight we all need to realize there is not going to be a lighter version of the Camaro. It is about as light as it can be under the cost structure and engineering limits. One thing that definitely will not happen is a stripped down version to save weight. Look at the ZR1 as an example it weight more than the Z06. Take a look at any car in the class and size of the Camaro and they are all about the same weight or more. This is a byproduct of all of the toys and safety requirements that we demand these days. Want a light car? Go to India, but it ain't gonna happen outside of the third world.

 

Well, just imagine a Z28 with a 1LE package...
Z28 could be what we are describing here, a lighter weight, tuned up version of the SS, while the 1LE removes more weight, lighter wheels, better brakes, perhaps Magnaride II shocks, and perhaps some carbon fiber pieces?
Id also like to see Z28 to not get teh mail slot, but get rear brake vents.

 

See the australian Falcon for an impressive counterexample. The turbo-6 blows the 8 completely out of the water, with almost the same power and a better torque curve, ~100lbs less weight all in the nose, and far better handling feel, from everybody that has reviewed it.

And the falcon is built on the direct competition for the platform that the Camaro was built on.

 

Al, I think you need to read Pruettfan's post. I think he has a very solid grasp of the situation:



Only problem is the Camaro SS is already created to be a race course car. In essence, the Camaro SS is what the Z28 should have been.

The middle car that links the 2 is the RS.

But once again, you're making a Z28 that's going to be priced even more into the stratosphere than the one that's being proposed. That means not only more cost, but also less sales and more exclusiveness. In other words, it's NOT a Z28. It's a car with alot of customized extremely lo production pieces.

This idea takes a not-so-great situation and turns it catostrophic.

Let's get to reality here. The Camaro as it is what you're going to be dealing with. Top Camaros are loaded with features as standard equptment and loaded with options. That's not GM's doing, that's OUR doing. So any idea of dropping content is a non-starter since the actual data says performance car buyers...especially, Camaro performance buyers... don't buy their cars that way. You have a better chance of selling Plague-in-a-can than you would selling a stripped top dog Camaro idea to GM.

Any Z28 proposal is going to involve parts that are either off the shelf or will be used on other cars.

Good post, but I don't even consider the '69 ZL1 a real car. Only 69 were made. There were 200 Chrysler turbine cars made that were distributed to real families. There were more Tuckers sold. You aren't going to fine a REAL ZL1 Camaro on E-bay, you'll find it at Barrett-Jackson or some other big name auctions. Last one I saw went for just under half million dollars, in case you're in the market.


Actually, it does.

The 1LE was not a "lightweight special". It was a package that included a host of handling enhancing parts geared for the racetrack. A short list included adjustable shocks, harder suspension bushings, different sway bars, different rear control bars (also used on B4C Camaros), & stiffer springs. Unlile the 4th gen, the 3rd gen versions had alumunum driveshafts and bigger brakes. The '93s were sold without A/C, T-tops, or power windows or seats.

But you are 100% correct about how most performance Camaros roll off the showrooms. They tend to be loaded. People who buy Z28s tend to want to get the most loaded Camaro they can afford. $th gen Camaros had a stripper version called the Z28. It went for a starting price of about $22,000. GM had incentives in 2002 that amounted up to over $2500 if you include the discount by financing through GMAC. One could end up with a entry level, lightest weight Z28 for under 20K.

They gathered dust on lots.

Loaded to the teeth Camaro SSs sold almost as soon as they hit the showrooms, though.

 

Um not really. If youre talking HIDs and apearance features which I wasnt then yeah. Otherwise the RS SS is definately not. The SS will not have the lighter weight or performance components of the Z28. Scott has already mentioned it being a possiblity of Z getting lighter weight such as possibly suspension that the SS wont get. Its a cost thing. Put that in a 1LE package and badge it as an SS 1LE. The performance components of a Z on an SS car with SS power. That and the RS are apples and oranges.

The fact that they are going for a 1/2 million dollars tells you one or two people disagree with you on it being a real car. In fact Im one of them. Im quite aware only 69 were made. The stories of them being lost for a while because they were never badged is almost as interesting as the car themselves. The ***** to the walls power plant that doubled the price is very much in line if you took the 5th gen and put a LS9 in it. If you do obviously it would be very high performance and a higher price tag just as the COPO's were. They would be more rare. No other badge would fit a combo like this in the history of the car. To me it is very real, very awesome and only lacking a name which Ive always called them COPO's.

 

I agree with what you're saying but I have actually seen a few on Ebay and other for sale sites over the years. Here's one for sale right now.

 

We absolutly need a z/28, but they need to back to it's roots, the first z's weren't top dog. They were built to compete in road races, the ss's came with the 350's and 427's and such. The z/28 came with a 302!

 

what road races do you want the Z28 to race in? they should build it to the spec that it's intended for then.

 

id be happy with a ls9 in basic black with dog dish hubcap and some raised white letter tires.....if not just give me a hugger orange with white stripes/gut SS convertible...we havent owned a chevy new since 1971 (C10) and i would have to seriously consider either car over a new honda accord

 

It’s a lot of hopes and dreams going on in this thread. Do we need a Z/28? Not right now, I think GM feels the same way. Why would they need to build a Z/28? They already got 300hp from the V6 and ~400 for the V8. That is enough to compete with the Challenger.
GM already said the Mustang is old news it’s all about the Challenger and the Nissan 350Z. OK Ford came out with a Mustang that has + 500hp Mustang so what!!! If GM does everything that ford does with wouldn't be a GM. If you want to buy a +500hp car from GM then buy a Vette, or a V series Cadillac. If they do come out with a Z/28 the 6th gen with be right around the corner.

 

GM does do everything ford does, when it comes to the camaro. the 5th gen is evidence of it in itself. and the mustang might be "old news" but it is something that GM would be foolish to try and look passed if the camaro is to survive.

 

Not really. No one wanted a low 13sec, (near LS1 times) possibly high 12sec Z28 when there are faster M*stangs. This is good for a mid V8 SS. Just because the SS has good suspension doesn't mean it can't be made even better for a Z. They're claiming .90g for the SS, when IROC-Z's were doing .92g some 23 years ago with less advanced suspension and 80's tire tech at 245/50/16. Do I think there should be another model and that the SS isn't good enough to be a Z28? YES. What does RS have to do with it as it's just appearance?


I honestly think people would pay more for the lighter/more exotic materials, this car is a tank. I also agree that a stripped version would not sell, IF that was standard and not an option, like 1LE, which should ONLY be available on the Z28. It is true that FBF has mentioned the possibility of using special lighter parts also. To the guy Guion was quoting, the Z28 also has quite a history in the 1320 and not just road courses BTW.

LOL, everyone wants a ZL1 but no one can buy one. The funny thing is no one bought them in when they were new either. They were very expensive and somewhat plain looking. They sat on dealers lots way into 70, they couldn't get rid of them.

The ones that started it though, the 3rd Gen IROC-Z's, were most definetly lightweight specials. They literally had nothing but the good engines, brakes, and suspension at about 3,300LBS. There's something to be said for that formula as a loaded L98 car was almost 3,500Lbs.

You are correct. But there is a slight flaw in that. Had they not left the Z28 a V6-looking boremobile they would have sold lots more, there was never a need for an SS, just an upgraded Z28. We all know that already though.

 

The Z28 was definetly a top car in it's own right. Z28 was also the overall racer. BTW, what SS's came factory with 427's?!?! That's a new one!

BS. The M*stang IS the Camaro's DIRECT competition in every way no matter what anyone says, and they still have the faster car. And yes, this segment IS about bragging rights and what goes into the automotive history books as "best" or "coolest."