If the new Mustang is really 400HP and 3600lbs, we will need a Z/28 just to keep up. 22HP and 300lbs more weight is not going to run like a 3600lb Mustang with 400HP

I think Ford is ready and they are going to BRING it, I hope GM does because the Camaro is SEX on wheels.

 

I feel that the SS we are getting should be the Z28. (as I don't see it getting any lighter) And the SS should be a step above that in performance. (as it always has been)

 

Well other than the DZ302 and the radiator I cant think of anything that differentiated a Z/28 from an SS of that year either. The Cross Ram is engine related. Two of the 69 Z/28 302's Transmissions th M21 and M22 were shared with the 69 COPO, while the M20 was shared with the 350 and 396. I cant think of one thing not engine related that differentiated the Z/28 of 1969 and yet the very next year when SCCA rules were changed the engine that differntiated the car was replaced with a 350.

 

You may be off from what the most "vocal" elements on this board wants, but I for one agree with you 100%.....even on your target price.

I ALSO AGREE WITH YOU 100%!! I don't understand all the either


A couple of thoughts on the whole Z28 thing....

I could care less what a 550hp Camaro is called......hell, call it a Berlinetta for all I care, just make it!

Has anyone given much thought to how much it might cost to take 500lbs off the current Camaro? I would think the cost of putting an LSA in the Camaro would pale in comparison to the cost of losing all that weight. Do people honestly think that a specialized, expensive "canyon carver" (which in my opinion would need to be pushed to the limits to be appreciated) would sell more than a probably cheaper (in my opinion) "respectable" handling Camaro with an LSA with 550hp on tap?

Sure, "handling" is nice, but I make full use of my Z06's acceleration MUCH more often than I do the handling potential......actually, come to think of it, I've NEVER used the full handling potential of my Z06. I probably never will as I don't plan on taking it to anything other than a STRAIGHT track and have no desire to really push it on the street. Cones are forgiving, but guardrails, trees, curbs and other cars aren't. I think the VAST MAJORITY of people are also more likely to do a full throttle blast for "fun" as opposed to a taking a curve with all 4 tires howling on the ragged edge of control. I also think that MANY MORE people take their cars to the 1/4 mile track than to any type of road course or auto cross event. The LSA would sell MUCH BETTER (due to demand and price) in my opinion.

 

If you're looking for things not engine related that were different on the Z/28 compared to the SS, you could start with the suspension. The Z/28 ran 15" wheels while all other first gens. including the SS ran 14" wheels, yet the Z/28body sat 2" lower than all other Camaros.
Clyde

 

Ron78Z&01SS and STOCK1SC -

I was hoping I wasn't the only one with this sort of thought. I think a thread the only focuses soley what the Z28 means and have only positive/constructive suggestions may be a good idea. I know that GM knows what the name means, but like you guys already said, maybe all this b*tching may persuade them to just axe the project. I think that would be the worst senario, this side of them sh*tcanning Camaro altogether.

 

I'm not clear on what this thread is really supposed to be about. The content, target market, or competitive landscape of the "top dog"? Or is it just a petty fight about the name?

Charlie's original post started off seeming like it was talking about the former, but then in the last couple sentences it degraded to the latter.

To echo a sentiment Jason Debler expressed a while back (hope he doesn't mind)... I couldn't care less what they call it, as long as it's a Camaro and I enjoy driving it. If I decide that having the letters "Z28" (or "Z/28") on my Camaro will make me happy, I will happily buy some Z28 badges and stick them on whatever Camaro makes me happy. Likewise, if I don't feel that "Z28" fits my car, I'll be just as happy driving around with "STFU" badges.

The badge does not make the car.

Now, if you guys want to get past this petty argument about badges, I think there's a very interesting conversation to be had about the top dog's targets.

 

This post is about making a case for the Z28, whether it's necessary, and what it should/could be.

 

Which post are we talking about? Are you talking about me or Guy?


Anyways, If STFU could easily replace Z/28, why couldn't it also replace the Camaro name? What's the difference, a name is a name. Right?

I suspect not many people would be in line to buy the Chevy STFU. Even fewer for the Camaro STFU.

Names mean something. They mean alot.

 

Especially a historic name like Z28, which is why we'd like the best one possible, some just don't see the picture. That name was fought over for years and now that it's going to be at the top like it should, it seems to be a copy of F*rds top car, which has a less than desirable formula.

 

From the main man hisselff, Vince Piggins on the Z/28:

That there is the whole reason that the Z/28 was born.

More here: http://67z28.com/history.htm

What Piggins said then is even more true now. Mustang has 5 years on the Camaro now, not just 2.

 

actually, it is a desirable formula. otherwise it wouldnt have sold so many.

 

How many GT500's are being sold a year? Also, I truly believe Camaro people are alot more picky and focused on details and performance, I think even GM surveys show this. The GT500 engine in a heavy box formula doesn't really equal Z28 to alot of us. We didn't want a copy that's for sure.

 

not exactly what I was trying to do. Some reason I thought the Z/28 shared the SS rear leaf springs. Anyway I was making an arguement for a modernday "COPO" Camaro in the Spirit of the 69 COPO Car. I was trying to use the Z28 as a reference point...

I guess youre refering to Charlies post but the whole top dog is a red herring to me. If you got that from my post I didnt explain myself well at all. That certainly wasnt what I was doing. Top dog doesnt even have a solid meaning but the monikers SS Z/28 COPO do and are NOT interchangeable. Piggins didnt just develop a Z/28, he came up with the ZL1 as well

You could have say (without any meaning whatsoever) that Z/28 would be "top dog" but it cant be forced induction and it has to blah blah and come in a certain price point. Well if a Z/28 has to be naturally aspirated for instance and is top dog then what do we call a car that say for arguments sake got an LS9? or something similar in the way of ZR1? Again I dont expect such a car to be built, but Im just saying should one be built, there is a moniker deserving of such a limited car monster, and as many Z/28 fans who hate the idea of a non naturally aspirated Z/28 have said many times mentioned, Z/28 does not fit such a car. ZR1 or COPO does and giving ZR1 or COPO a car deserving of the badge is due. I dont know how else to put it. Both amazing vehicles in their own right. both fit modern translations very well. If done correctly all could hit the streets they could be the same ideas as the originals and unfortunately the meaningless "topdog" arguemnts would continue

 

Yep, I was addressing Charlie, not you.

EDIT: my mistake -- I am actually addressing guionM.

COPO isn't a badge. It stands for Central Office Production Order, and has nothing to do with the actual specs on the car. I don't think such a thing exists any more anyway.