Fbodfather's Milford/5th gen thoughts...
05-21-2008 | 07:46 PM
#181
ALMIGHTY MEMBER
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 2,301
From: Detroit, MI USA
And another thing.......
I think a few people owe Jason Debler an apology.
Here's a young man that has spent a huge amount of time and money and effort so that we can meet and talk about the car that -- I think -- we all love -- and the stuff I'm reading in this thread makes it sound like we could have sold him a 1960 Plymouth with "Camero" slapped on the hood. He's travelled all over the place to meet his fellow enthusiasts --
This man feels so strongly about the Camaro - and he's made it very clear to me what his expectations are -- and has never minced words with me when it comes to Camaro -- and yet I get the feeling that some feel he (and many of the other disciples) should not have been chosen.
I think a few people owe Jason Debler an apology.
Here's a young man that has spent a huge amount of time and money and effort so that we can meet and talk about the car that -- I think -- we all love -- and the stuff I'm reading in this thread makes it sound like we could have sold him a 1960 Plymouth with "Camero" slapped on the hood. He's travelled all over the place to meet his fellow enthusiasts --
This man feels so strongly about the Camaro - and he's made it very clear to me what his expectations are -- and has never minced words with me when it comes to Camaro -- and yet I get the feeling that some feel he (and many of the other disciples) should not have been chosen.
05-21-2008 | 08:08 PM
#182
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 131
From: Dallas AKA Hell
And another thing.......
I think a few people owe Jason Debler an apology.
Here's a young man that has spent a huge amount of time and money and effort so that we can meet and talk about the car that -- I think -- we all love -- and the stuff I'm reading in this thread makes it sound like we could have sold him a 1960 Plymouth with "Camaro" slapped on the hood. He's travelled all over the place to meet his fellow enthusiasts --
This man feels so strongly about the Camaro - and he's made it very clear to me what his expectations are -- and has never minced words with me when it comes to Camaro -- and yet I get the feeling that some feel he (and many of the other disciples) should not have been chosen.
I think a few people owe Jason Debler an apology.
Here's a young man that has spent a huge amount of time and money and effort so that we can meet and talk about the car that -- I think -- we all love -- and the stuff I'm reading in this thread makes it sound like we could have sold him a 1960 Plymouth with "Camaro" slapped on the hood. He's travelled all over the place to meet his fellow enthusiasts --
This man feels so strongly about the Camaro - and he's made it very clear to me what his expectations are -- and has never minced words with me when it comes to Camaro -- and yet I get the feeling that some feel he (and many of the other disciples) should not have been chosen.
Now if i could only track down Cytruffle at one of the car meets in Dallas ,and bribe her with flappers and wine..
AND for Jason to spend that much time money and energy i give him MAD PROPS.
Last edited by nexus6; 05-21-2008 at 08:10 PM.
05-21-2008 | 08:08 PM
#183
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 106
From: Dublin, OH
I don't know about everyone else, but I feel lucky that GM is listening as much as they are. Lucky that they invited the 15 knowledgeable people that they did to the focus group. And I also feel lucky (and privileged) that the disciples asked for our input before going to the focus group. That's just me, but I personally think everyone should feel this way.
05-21-2008 | 10:17 PM
#184
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 287
From: Richmond, VA
I sure don't understand where all of this negativity is coming from, I've been extremely pleased with the communications between Chevy and the enthusiast community. Unfortunately, there are always some that will have negative things to say regardless of the process or results, so far I like what I've heard and I think I'll really like the finished product. I think a special thanks needs to go out to the representatives of the enthusiast community that participated and to Chevy/GM for making the effort and promoting input from the enthusiast community. So, a big thank you to Scott, the 15 disciples, and to Chevy/GM for participating and trying to make the fifth gen. Camaros the best ever!
Clyde
Clyde
05-21-2008 | 10:43 PM
#185
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,808
From: FL/MI
I have had the pleasure of interfacing with different camps within the enthusuiast community. I have had the pleasure to be among the crowd and to be the guy making the presentation to the passionate community.
Here's my experience and thought on the subject. Speak to an enthusiast group and they will be polite and reserved for only so long. Really passionate folks will not be silent for long, particularly if encouraged to "tell it like you see it". Once that barrier is crossed there is an opportunity for valuable give and take for all sides of the conversation.
I don't think there is any way in the world for true enthusiasts to communicate without real desires and passions coming out in rather short order. It really doesn't take long for it to be quite candid. That's part of what makes it worthwhile.
05-21-2008 | 11:01 PM
#186
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,808
From: FL/MI
05-21-2008 | 11:09 PM
#187
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,808
From: FL/MI
3 don't! One doesn't even own a Camaro, but what does that matter. To me, the focus group was to give opinions for enthusiasts and more important non enthusiasts and practical every day people. They need to sell a lot of these and any focus group would have to be people that you trust have not only the enthusiast knowledge but also a bigger perspective.
I trust that GM went through a lot of though in who and how they chose people. They made one big mistake though, they didn't pick me.
And yes, I own a fourth gen, I am on that "other board", I am personal friends with most of the disciples and I like to think Scott os my friend, so how in the hell could he leave me out. I meet all the criteria!
No need for a bullit proof vest. If we can't discuss these things then what is the sense of these boards anyway? I'm happy to listen to your opinions even if I don't agree.
I trust that GM went through a lot of though in who and how they chose people. They made one big mistake though, they didn't pick me.
And yes, I own a fourth gen, I am on that "other board", I am personal friends with most of the disciples and I like to think Scott os my friend, so how in the hell could he leave me out. I meet all the criteria!
No need for a bullit proof vest. If we can't discuss these things then what is the sense of these boards anyway? I'm happy to listen to your opinions even if I don't agree.
Nice post...very nice post!
05-21-2008 | 11:42 PM
#188
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 73
From: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Apologize? Personally I think you should take a bow. I don't think you've done or said anything that would require forgiveness. Standing up for your acquaintances, your friends, your coworkers, and yourself when beeing persecuted without any merit or evidence of impropriety is nothing to apologize for.
05-22-2008 | 12:14 AM
#189
Registered User
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 3,647
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Even if someone were to post the full disclosure of all the details about the upcoming Camaro we would still have cryers.
You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time but you can't please all the people all the time...
...unless all new 5th gens come with a bottle of champagne and a $1000/hr hooker (chipendale for the ladies).
You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time but you can't please all the people all the time...
...unless all new 5th gens come with a bottle of champagne and a $1000/hr hooker (chipendale for the ladies).
05-22-2008 | 07:13 AM
#190
Disciple
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 125
From: Pine Bush, NY USA
Apologize? Personally I think you should take a bow. I don't think you've done or said anything that would require forgiveness. Standing up for your acquaintances, your friends, your coworkers, and yourself when beeing persecuted without any merit or evidence of impropriety is nothing to apologize for.
I don't think there is any way in the world for true enthusiasts to communicate without real desires and passions coming out in rather short order. It really doesn't take long for it to be quite candid. That's part of what makes it worthwhile.
05-22-2008 | 09:10 AM
#191
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 658
From: Madisonville, Louisiana
I wish I was going to make it to that this year its always a great event. My parents even invited me to come visit this weekend. Too bad its on the same weekend I have a triathlon here in Louisiana and my friends welcome back party( from Afghanastan). I'd particularly like to go to the GMMG open house to see what they're working on with no Camaro's or Firebirds right now( I guess they are just concentrating on the chambered exhaust?)
12-21-2010 | 12:52 PM
#192
BBOMG Organizer
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 520
From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Fbodfather's Milford/5th gen thoughts...
What you arent realizing is GM DID have several other focus groups - including Mustang owners and import owners. They didnt get the full hands on treatment we did, but make no mistake their input was sought.
GM is perfectly aware the key to Camaro's success is NOT in "Camaro Nation" loving the car. It has to appeal to a much broader audience than just us to be successful.
GM is perfectly aware the key to Camaro's success is NOT in "Camaro Nation" loving the car. It has to appeal to a much broader audience than just us to be successful.
I think there are a couple of things that must not be lost sight of:
1) If Someone feels that GM "got it right", that is not the same thing as "getting it perfect". There is always room for improvement.
2) The focus group members are indeed very passionate about this car - and are just as passionate about doing everything possible that could help with its success... so "having already put the deposit down" in one's mind does not necessarily preclude the ability to remain objective. As enthusiasts, we understand the car and its intent - perhaps more acutely than Mustang or import owners could. As a result, we are more closely tuned into the subtleties of the car. After this past weekend, it was obvious to me that there were a few subtle details about the car that we thought could be improved upon. I remain skeptical that non-enthusiasts would have actually noticed these things.
3) I believe GM has held other focus groups for this car (comprised of people who were non-enthusiasts) and gleaned what they could from them. This is a somewhat different tack that GM is taking - i.e. receiving input from its enthusiast community... and from all impressions, the team seems to be very pleased with the contributions made from this group.
Best regardSS,
Elie
1) If Someone feels that GM "got it right", that is not the same thing as "getting it perfect". There is always room for improvement.
2) The focus group members are indeed very passionate about this car - and are just as passionate about doing everything possible that could help with its success... so "having already put the deposit down" in one's mind does not necessarily preclude the ability to remain objective. As enthusiasts, we understand the car and its intent - perhaps more acutely than Mustang or import owners could. As a result, we are more closely tuned into the subtleties of the car. After this past weekend, it was obvious to me that there were a few subtle details about the car that we thought could be improved upon. I remain skeptical that non-enthusiasts would have actually noticed these things.
3) I believe GM has held other focus groups for this car (comprised of people who were non-enthusiasts) and gleaned what they could from them. This is a somewhat different tack that GM is taking - i.e. receiving input from its enthusiast community... and from all impressions, the team seems to be very pleased with the contributions made from this group.
Best regardSS,
Elie
12-22-2010 | 10:02 AM
#193
Thread Starter
2010 Camaro Moderator/Disciple
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,087
From: Chester, NY
Re: Fbodfather's Milford/5th gen thoughts...
Funny looking at this thread today years later.....
I recall asking them before production started what would be a "good" year. 80,000 was the answer. They sold a few more 2010s than that huh... under what had to be the WORST conditions to launch a performance orientated car. Bankrputcy, recession, soaring gas prices......
12-22-2010 | 10:09 AM
#194
Admin Emeritus
Joined: Dec 1997
Posts: 11,157
From: Nashville, TN area
Re: Fbodfather's Milford/5th gen thoughts...
And hooolllleeeeey crap am I excited for that event!!!!
It sure is, and glad things are working out well for the car and the team and the enthusiasts.
So anyway...I don't think I was told much details about the "other" focus groups. If I was, I had too many Cappy Cokes in me to remember it.
I am guessing they were general studies conducted by companies like Gongos Research (I do focus groups for them once in a while for fun...did one for OnStar's web site a few months ago...kinda neat).
Funny looking at this thread today years later.....
So anyway...I don't think I was told much details about the "other" focus groups. If I was, I had too many Cappy Cokes in me to remember it.
I am guessing they were general studies conducted by companies like Gongos Research (I do focus groups for them once in a while for fun...did one for OnStar's web site a few months ago...kinda neat).
12-22-2010 | 10:24 AM
#195
Thread Starter
2010 Camaro Moderator/Disciple
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,087
From: Chester, NY
Re: Fbodfather's Milford/5th gen thoughts...
I don't think I was told much details about the "other" focus groups. If I was, I had too many Cappy Cokes in me to remember it.
I am guessing they were general studies conducted by companies like Gongos Research (I do focus groups for them once in a while for fun...did one for OnStar's web site a few months ago...kinda neat).
I am guessing they were general studies conducted by companies like Gongos Research (I do focus groups for them once in a while for fun...did one for OnStar's web site a few months ago...kinda neat).