Again, I am truly happy for all those that went but I still believe that having other hard core Camaro enthusiasts involved from other Generations could have given GM a dimension they did not get this past weekend.

That is not to imply that anyone who was selected did not deserve to be there. I would never say that.

 

That's where I disagree as I believe that every new product should go through these focus groups. It is a requirement in my books. The key for GM is to make sure that the focus groups consist of the proper mixture, otherwise they'll end up with another Aztec. BTW - Scott did tell me that the Aztec went through one.

 

You are right, and 100% on the nose. I think that it stems into something that goes deeper. I have always had this theory that Camaro people of different gens have different attitudes, and act differently depending on the generation you have.
4th gen guys looked down on 3rd gen guys, First gen guys look down to all, and 2nd gen guys fight with eachother.
Mustang guys, no matter if you have 65, 83 or a 2004 Cobra all are Mustang guys. There is a much stronger tie with them there is with Camaro. Lets not forget about the Firebird guys who would never be caught dead in a Camaro!!
Again, this is what I belive. I could be way wrong, but I have yet to see something different. Just look at the websites. How many different Mustang sites are there? How many are just about ONE type of generation Mustang? This could get into a deeper thing, and I dont want to high-jack this thread anymore then it has been done.
Not all Camaro people are tollerent of other generations.

 

Big Al - IMO you are 100% correct. I currently own two of each generation and can tell you from experience that your synopsis regarding Camaro people is true.

Lol! There are even classes within generations! A '69 letter car looks down on any other first gen. (actually you are correct - they look down on everyone) An early 2nd gen guy looks down on a late 2nd gen guy. An L98 IROC guy looks down on all other 3rd gens and yes - LS1 guys look down on the LT1 guys.

It is the difference of these people that I feel GM should attempt to explore.

 

Yep. I own an 87 Z28 and a 72 RS as well, 2 very different cars with 15 years between them. Huge difference between them and the way people look at each generation.

 

And what about us folks who like ALL the Camaro generations? Do we get a stereotype/stigma?

I certainly know what you're talking about as far as superiority complexes btw. generations of Camaro - but I don't think it's nearly as widespread as you make it out to be. Or maybe I'm just blind to the cold, cruel world...

 

We have a personality disorder!

 

I think there are some people that look at all generations of Camaro as equal, as I am sure that some Mustang guys look down on other gens. Hell, I made fun of the Mustang II on a Mustang site, and I got flaaamed.
Is it everyone? No. Do I like ALL Gens of Camaro? Nope, but I respect the Camaro of all flavors and colors. I dont knock a V6 guy trying to make his car fast. I dont laugh at someone who modded up a 305 or 307 instead of spending money on an engine like a 350. They have more heart and soul into thier car then the "cut-check" car builds of some cars.

But to bring this back to the subject, It seems that GM picked a good cross section of Camaro fans and owners, from guys and gals that own one gen, several gens, and even a judge of a Camaro competition!
So Bravo to GM for pulling these select few. My only regret is no fault outside of my own for not submitting an essay about my families affair with the Camaro.

 

Hylton, you are begging the question.

Folks are chosen to give input to the manufacturer. They go to view the progress and come away positive.

There seems, to me, to be a definate assumption on some folks part that there can be no general happiness relating to the new Camaro, what's been taken into consideration, and built into the final product.

What you and others seem to suggest is that GM decided to devote time, man hours, and lots of money to put together a team of yes men and women who will nod in approval and drink the kool-ade.


I ask that you pardon my gut reaction here... Scott Settlemire is the absolute champion for the return of the Camaro. He was an integral part of this program, and you simply don't know his integrity and willingness to put himself at dire professional risk for the Camaro not falling off the GM radar and he has the respect in all the hallways of GM for his earnest passion. If he helped choose the group chosen, I have no issue at all with it.

With all due respect, I know where Scott is in the who's who... I don't know you, but I suspect we could be friends.

The success of the Camaro will based on the acceptance of the hardcore community. As it should be.

The overall success of Camaro will based on the reaction and determination by folks that don't know an R.P.O. from their A.S.S..


The bottom line will be much more apparent at events like Indy, where I know you will be there to settle many of your own concerns.

I hope we can meet at some enthusiast event at some point. I'm convinced you are a real Camaro person. However, regarding this issue, you are begging the question.

 

I don't quite understand WHY that is, but I completely agree with you. SOME (not all, but some) owners certainly can portray a very "elite-ist" attitude about them/their cars .

I always thought the idea of the 5th-gen was to embrace ALL the generations of the Camaro into ONE, "almighty", the best-we've-ever-built Camaro. For the most part, I think they got it, although there's certainly a lot more influence from 1 generation than the others . But that's a debate all its own!

I'm in that boat too! I truly do appreciate and love ALL the generations of F-bodies (Firebirds included!). I mean, as a quick "resume":
- my Dad had '69 SS350 - sold it just before I was born, but he still has pictures, and it was an awesome Hugger Orange '69 SS!!
- '77 Firebird Formula - had it from when I was 3 - 7 years old - I loved it!
- '78 Z28 - had it when I was ~10 - 11 years old - loved it!
- '81 Z28 - my first Camaro! - had it when I was in highschool (selling it was the worst thing EVER!)
- '73 Camaro - my Dad's current "toy" - also Hugger Orange (nostalgia).
- '02 Z28 - my second, and current Camaro.

SO, as you can see, the only Gen we've never actually owned is a 3rd-gen. But it's not for lack of love/interest!

And my honest opinion of the cars is that, while I love my '02 (4th-gen), the "problem" with BOTH 3rd- & 4th-gens is that they STAYED THE SAME TOO DAMN LONG!! The 1st- & 2nd-gens seemed to have more "character" about them? That, and they changed up styling a little more often.

But there is nothing wrong with loving ALL generations, and I also don't like the inter-generation bickering!

 

I'm not saying it wasn't a requirement to go through some sort of focus group, because it was (and Camaro did). I'm saying it wasn't a requirement to go through a focus group with a group of enthusiasts.

 

Why are you bringing up Scott's integrity? He is an exceptional champion of the Camaro.

 

That was disciples only.

The North American RWD Lead Engineer, Al Oppenheiser, just completed restoring a '68. He did all the work himself. Tom Peters showed up at Milford in his SWEET 69 Copo clone... so they're are plenty of Camaro-holics working on the car.

Tom's Camaro

 

...I hear what you're saying in that some people may be partial to one generation over another, ...but it's sort of like telling someone they have an ugly child. People love their cars, ...and some are a bit more 'sided', ...they have the 'best' looking kid around so to speak.
As for there being different boards for different gens, ...sure some will focus on one generation than another, ...that's just how it is. Some are interested in the intricate details on the proper restoration of a 1st gen, ...yet others would be bored to tears by it.
Yes, people have different views, ...for example, ...in jest, ...there are '67 owners that 'poke' other 1st gen owners to say, ...'the only real 1st Gen has wing windows', ...or 4th gen owners of SS's vs. Z's. It's simply a matter of taste, ...but to say some "...look down..." on others? ...well, ...as much as that might be true, ...I surely don't look down on anyone, ...our opinions are different, ...that's all.
I'm a pretty hardcore 1st gen fan/owner, spend a lot of time on Team Camaro and CRG for that stuff. To the point to be quite honest, ...I judge at the Nationals. I am also a 4th gen fan/owner, ...there are a number of boards for those too. And I have owned 2nd and 3rd gen cars, ...some I wish I never got rid of (case in point, ...an '87 Iroc 5.7 loaded in black, ...awsome car), but the fact that I don't currently own them surely does not say I look down on those that do.
To each his own so to speak...

...and speaking of the Focus Group, ...I thought they were representing YOU? ...Just because the Focus Group members have preferences on certain things or own certain generations, ...don't think for a second that they did not bring up concerns from those on this board (and others), ....they did. How do I know? ...I was one of them.
...but as I recall Jason mentioning in a post... It's sort of like Christmas, ...you wish for a whole lot of things, ...and get some of them. I will simply add that I truely feel all will get most of them...

Kevin

 

Kevin,

How many TC and CRG members concerns did you bring up?