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Forget Z/28 vs. SS...Here's an alternative lineup idea

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Old 02-22-2008 | 01:44 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Pentatonic
Remember the days when 220 hp in a ponycar was really something?
Nope. When did Camaros have the option for a 396 ci engine that I am sure was more than 220 HP? I know that there are 69's with that size of an engine. Unless you are referencing a Mustang.
Old 02-22-2008 | 01:45 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by scaz
Nope. When did Camaros have the option for a 396 ci engine that I am sure was more than 220 HP? I know that there are 69's with that size of an engine. Unless you are referencing a Mustang.
He's referring to the mid-to-late '80s.
Old 02-22-2008 | 03:16 PM
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Yeah, them good ol' days, not them good really ol' days
Old 02-22-2008 | 03:25 PM
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Camaro hasn't had a 396 since the early 70s.
Old 02-22-2008 | 03:39 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by jg95z28
Read my quote again. They weren't production cars. They were COPOs with a special engine package. You couldn't walk into just any Chevy dealer and order a ZL1. You had to go through one of the handful of dealerships that sold them. They basically took SS-396s and set them up with the standard 427 iron block package, but substitued in the ZL1 aluminum 427. Only 69 were built and they sold for twice the price of the iron block 427 COPO Camaros. Hardly production level numbers and prices.
You're assuming I didnt read your post the first time. For years 1967 and 1968 you are correct. Don Yenko has modified SS 396 cars to produce the his cars those years. For the 69 models however in 1969 COPO Central Office Production Order ZL1 were cars from the factory with ZL1 and are thus production. Im aware of the Yenko, Fred Gibbs and other dealers. They however did not modify the cars in 1969. The 201 Yenko's in 1969 were also production ZL1's with Yenkos graphics put on by teenagers making $13 a day. That is why there is variation and exactly how the graphics were put on. Yenkos 201 cars came from the factory as is. Cars that had the 427 swaped in later by dealers are not real COPOs. The fact that there were only 270 Factory ZL1s total does not mean they were not production. If they could have sold more, they would have. The 427 ZL1's listed as option 9560AA for 4 speed and 9560BA for auto did share both the 3spd 400 turbo and 4spd munchie transmissions with the 396 SS however. If you walked into Gibbs dealership you could buy a COPO ZL1 facotry Camaro from GM.

Last edited by 5thgen69camaro; 02-22-2008 at 03:41 PM.
Old 02-22-2008 | 04:53 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by 5thgen69camaro
You're assuming I didnt read your post the first time. For years 1967 and 1968 you are correct. Don Yenko has modified SS 396 cars to produce the his cars those years. For the 69 models however in 1969 COPO Central Office Production Order ZL1 were cars from the factory with ZL1 and are thus production. Im aware of the Yenko, Fred Gibbs and other dealers. They however did not modify the cars in 1969. The 201 Yenko's in 1969 were also production ZL1's with Yenkos graphics put on by teenagers making $13 a day. That is why there is variation and exactly how the graphics were put on. Yenkos 201 cars came from the factory as is. Cars that had the 427 swaped in later by dealers are not real COPOs. The fact that there were only 270 Factory ZL1s total does not mean they were not production. If they could have sold more, they would have. The 427 ZL1's listed as option 9560AA for 4 speed and 9560BA for auto did share both the 3spd 400 turbo and 4spd munchie transmissions with the 396 SS however. If you walked into Gibbs dealership you could buy a COPO ZL1 facotry Camaro from GM.
Check your numbers. There were only 69 ZL1s. The rest were iron block 427s. (http://www.yenko.net)
Old 02-22-2008 | 06:38 PM
  #67  
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Yeah 69 ZL1's
Old 02-22-2008 | 06:47 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by christianjax :
I could have swore that my 90 Iroc Convertible had a dash plaque that said IROC Z28. I could be wrong, it's been about 15 years since I had the car. Was there a difference between an IROC and a IROC Z? (as in Z28)
It actually reads "Z28" (big yellow letters) over smaller "IROC Z"...
There is not any exterior "Z28" badges tho.

The 396 today is a popular engine "oversize", made by using a larger crankshaft and boring out the cylinders some.
A step up from the 383ci stroker kits of the '90's.
And since the 1st gens had a popular 396ci Big Block, the 396ci smallblock would add to the "Heritage" factor, yet be new, fresh and modern. (4.030 bore x 3.875 stroke)6.5L?
And would weigh some 200lbs less than a big block.
Old 02-22-2008 | 06:54 PM
  #69  
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I'm pretty sure I remember all of the COPO cars sported Aluminum block 427's and the Yenko' etc were iron blocks.
Were any COPOs ever originally sold to the public? My thinking was No.
Old 02-22-2008 | 06:58 PM
  #70  
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EDMUNDS:
"The COPO 9561 was a basic Camaro sport coupe stuffed with 427 cubic inches of all-iron big-block making 425 horsepower. Most of the 1,015 COPO 9561s were delivered to Pennsylvania's Yenko Chevrolet for conversion into that dealership's signature Camaro. Even rarer was the COPO 9560 featuring the legendary all-aluminum ZL-1 427 also rated at 425 horsepower. Only 69 of the ZL-1s were built, and because of their rarity, tremendous output and relatively low weight, they are today considered the quickest and most valuable Camaros ever built."

2 COPO versions...well, ya learn something every day.
Old 02-22-2008 | 10:23 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by 90rocz
I'm pretty sure I remember all of the COPO cars sported Aluminum block 427's and the Yenko' etc were iron blocks.
Were any COPOs ever originally sold to the public? My thinking was No.
Always assumed they were. It looked like Fred Gibb couldnt sell some of them and he sold them to other dealers just to get rid of them. If he couldnt sell them who was he trying to sell them to? They were street legal emissions certified. Insuring them apparently was also an issue.

http://www.camaros.org/copo.shtml

Originally Posted by jg95z28
Check your numbers. There were only 69 ZL1s. The rest were iron block 427s. (http://www.yenko.net)
I stand corrected There were 69 PRODUCTION COPO ZL1's(9560)

Last edited by 5thgen69camaro; 02-22-2008 at 11:08 PM.
Old 02-23-2008 | 12:41 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by 90rocz
The 396 today is a popular engine "oversize", made by using a larger crankshaft and boring out the cylinders some.
A step up from the 383ci stroker kits of the '90's.
And since the 1st gens had a popular 396ci Big Block, the 396ci smallblock would add to the "Heritage" factor, yet be new, fresh and modern. (4.030 bore x 3.875 stroke)6.5L?
And would weigh some 200lbs less than a big block.
I'd love to see a 396 but would rather go 4-2-7 as in LS7 and all 505hp that goes with it.
Old 02-23-2008 | 12:52 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by 99SilverSS:
I'd love to see a 396 but would rather go 4-2-7 as in LS7 and all 505hp that goes with it.
So would I, but just like in the old days, it's an expensive upgrade, and pretty much the big brother Corvette's territory.
Maybe it could be an obscurr package like the COPO..?
Or.... maybe we can get some dealers to option/swap the LS7 in like Yenko, or Nickey etc..start some new legacy?
Complete with badges, and or striping?
Old 02-23-2008 | 12:59 AM
  #74  
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I would like to see a Z28 maybe get a V8, designed off the 3.6L DOHC..VVT/DI..V6 (...that's a mouth full..)
Like...a...4.8L, considering 1.2L/2cyl's...and an 8,000rpm redline.
That's a 302!..

Last edited by 90rocz; 02-23-2008 at 01:01 AM.
Old 02-23-2008 | 01:30 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by 99SilverSS
I'd love to see a 396 but would rather go 4-2-7 as in LS7 and all 505hp that goes with it.
the LS7 is a 4-2-8. Just FYI.



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