Funny Art, I remember when you stopped here on your way to the Camaro focus group, we were saying that due to our age and station in life, that this gen car might be it for us and Camaro.

Well, I hope this next one is a great one, because I'm pretty sure I'll be off to other things by the time a 6th gen comes out. Although I haven't bought a new Camaro in a long time (ah, I guess who has?), I've considered myself a Camaro guy since age 6

I guess the normal progression would be for me to move to Corvette. It certainly meets my requirements far better than Camaro does - the thing is, I'm just not a Corvette guy. So the bottom line is: they'd better not screw up the 5th gen Camaro for me.

 

I'm kind of in the same boat. I actually was (am?) considering the new Malibu. Crazy huh? As much as I love the older cars, the old man in me wants a new fangeled toy inwhich everything works. I'm not a Corvette guy either, and I just can't see myself driving one, nor my wife riding in one alongside me. Today I drove my 95 Z/28 for the first time in weeks. With my stereo on the fritz, I could hear all the rattles, moans and creaks that have developed over 12 years and 53k miles of enthused driving. I caught myself at lunch going online and looking at used 2000-2002 Camaro SS coupes. But if I dump $16-20k into a used Camaro now that'll only put me further away from a new Camaro in 2009-10. My wife told me, "why don't you buy that new truck you wanted"; but do I really want or need a new truck... seriously? So I'm back to nursing my Z/28 along another 2-3 years and hoping something major doesn't happen in the mean time (like the motor going south, or the price of premium hitting $5/gal). Meanwhile, I'm growing less and less interested in working on the old cars every day. Perhaps I need to sell a couple of Camaros and rethink my purchase strategy on my next car. I guess that's why I'm hoping GM does the Camaro right and offers us a "true" Z/28 super Camaro, because if I do buy one, it'll probably be my last.

Heck, maybe the 6th gen Camaros will all use hydrogen fuel cell propulsion systems.

 

Here's a pretty good thread on the "Huntsman"...


http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums...opic=18786&hl=

 

You're definitely correct about brand image highly effecting the younger crowd. GM has already invested heavily into the 5th gen prototype through a lot of different media. They have already been creating a buzz among those who cannot even drive yet! Let's face it you don't see a Tiburon transform into a giant alien robot too often.

 

I didnt have time to read the other parts of this thread, so Im just going to reply to the original message.
The Camaro is going to contend quite simply based on heritage and the cult following that comes with it. Now, the Hyundai will be a nice car Im sure and appeals to a lot of people...but I will tell you this right now, I am 22 and plan on buying the Camaro once I turn 25. I have four friends that say the same.
The appeal of the Camaro over this Hyundai? The same as the appeal of Babe Ruth above any hot new performer. The same as the appeal of James Dean, Elvis, or Marylin Monroe above Brad Pitt, Justin Timberlake and Paris Hilton (god I hate her). Hot and new may be cool, but has struggles when standing up against legendary mystique. Perhaps thats what people are paying that little extra for. I know that my motive is to own a Camaro because of its rich history. Its not even about the performance, even though I know it will give me the ride of my life. Its familiar, its got charisma that a new player has not, its got character, good looks, a v8 sound that a v6 cannot immitate...and most of all, like the Corvette and the Mustang, its one of those cars that we have to keep alive. We've just gotta. Even in a world of high gas prices, we need those few cars that pop out of the gray. I dont want to imagine a world where there is nothing but Yaris', Fits, and Aveos. Maybe my motives differ from some around here, but I look at cars like Camaros, Corvettes, Mustangs, Nissan Zs, Impalas, Chargers, DB9s, XKs, Ferraris, etc. as works of art like the Starry Night, the Mona Lisa, or Impression Sunrise...some things need to be kept around just for the sake of rememberance if not any other reason, because I know we can all think of plenty more reasons to buy a Camaro.

 

Heritage and brand imaging are certainly important for Camaro. And my sense is, after talking to various people on the Camaro Team, that this time around, they "get it". Camaro's brand imaging will fervently excite a certain segment - namely us. But we shouldn't presume or assume that Camaro's heritage will carry the day with the general consumer populace, because I assure you it won't. The car itself will need to be good enough to carry the day and any association with it's heritage will simply be icing on the cake.

Anyway, Camaro won't have a lock on this heritage thing, (other than celebrating it's own). The Mustang has an undeniably rich heritage - uninterrupted for 44 years. Hell, the Challenger only even existed for 5 model years, and that was 34 years ago, and it's got heritage. There will be plenty of heritage testosterone flying around.

Does the Hyundai Genesis have heritage? Well, someone else might have to speak to that. I DO know however, that the discontinued 240SX/Sylvia/RWD Celica/non-turbo Supra are considered cult status symbols by those who own them. It's not much of a leap to imagine that the Genesis would be a logical, spiritual, new car, successor to these. I can also imagine lots of FWD converts, with their own specific heritage hot buttons, giving the Genesis a look.

 

z284ever, I agree totally, in fact I should have added some of what you said into my original message just so I wouldnt be misunderstood. I dont think that heritage should be the only factor in Camaro sales. I think that they should go for more of a Corvette angle, where there will be the heritage-loving demographic that will eat it up, but they are also picking up new customers everyday based on its great value, with exotic car looks and performance.
The people at Chevy have been nailing public intrest with the Vette, and I would be willing to bet that they can achieve the same results by simply using the same formula (and engines, hehe). Dodge can bank on using the whole brute image, which I think suits them well...Dodge would have its own character in this market, much like the Viper. The Mustang will always be appealing, it has good lines and decent power, unless they go all Mustang II on it, which I doubt. Frankly I am a little disappointed with Fords styling as of late with the Focus and Taurus face-lifts looking like complete garbage. Lets hope this doesnt spread to the Mustang.
Another note on the whole heritage thing, I think that just the pure fact that there is competition now will help the sales too. You know, youre hanging around the water-cooler and talking about whats new and you hear a thing or two about the pony-wars heating up. "What? The Challenger is adding how much more horse power in response to the Camaro ZL1?" "Huh? Lingenfelter, Henesey, and Shelby are having a shootout in Road & Track this month?"
Basically, I think the Camaro, Challenger, and Mustang will actually help eachother in a way by making eachother even more popular. What could be better marketing than having everyone wanting to talk about which ponycar is best...a category that that Hyundai simply doesnt fall into. And yeah, that Hyundai has a following from the same guys who dig the Supra and such, but I think those guys were never really looking at the Camaro to begin with. The identity is very different. Some will flock to the Hyundai and the upcoming Acura, and some will flock to the Camaro and company. Its a taste thing, and I think that there is room in the market for both types.

 

Thanks for the post.

When can this platform be expected as the pictures of ther 2010 mules look to be on the same platform as the present just with body updates and the same size. I am sure it will get IRS and new engines but it looked to be not any major changes.

I have never seen much on the Huntsman but I have read a new platform for the Mustang would not be available till well after 2010?

Would we be looking at 2014-15? There was a posting on Autoblog with mule pictures from Leftlane.

 

2012 seems to be the date floating around for Ford's Global RWD Program (Huntsman). Those recent spy pics are of Mustang's mid cycle enhancement on the current platform.

 

It's a heck of a large leap!

Former 240SX owner here. I bought one when I left college (at 24) because I couldn't afford the insurance on a new IROC-Z. I wanted something that handled well and was RWD. The 240SX fit the bill. My '68 RS Camaro was getting tired, and I didn't want to put extra miles on it as a daily driver to my new job 60 miles away. As much as I loved that Nissan, when the time came to replace it, I ran back to GM and Camaro and purchased the '95 Z/28 I still own today. While I'll agree 240SX/Sylvia enthusiasts are just as fanatical as Camaro fans are, their numbers are smaller and they're a tighter dynamic group.

If I was a 20 something today, I'd probably look a nice used 4th gen, or even a cheap 3rd gen for a weekend toy. I simply doubt Hyundai will makes as big of an impact you fear it might.

 

Is it really?


You know, if you hang around a board like this, or even with my Camaro Club buds, you'd think that there wouldn't be a single solitary soul who would even consider buying a Mustang. Hey, some people here can't even bring themselves to type out the word M******. But Mustangs ARE sold. And people were/will cross shop Mustangs and Camaros heavily.

Will this Hyundai Genesis kill Camaro or even Mustang for that matter? Of course not. But it is unimagineable to me that at least afew Camaro sales won't be lost to Hyundai's new coupe. It's unimagineable to me that a sizeable chunk of the non-brand loyal population, will not cross shop Camaro, Mustang AND Genesis - if they are seeking a $20-$26K, RWD, sporty coupe.

I know if I were in that segment, I'd test drive all three.

 

One thing about the cross-shopping the Genisis with the Camaro...as soon as someone hits the ignition, the sound and feel of the LS-engine will pretty much end the cross-shopping.
Especially since they're sweating the exhaust sound so intensely this time.

Most of the small Import V8's sound and feel more like our V6's...but not having heard the Genisis run, it's just speculation based on past experience.

And if you choose the high revving, higher pitched sound over the deep, throaty LSx, you'd probably be cross-shopping other imports instead anyways.

 

I TOTALLY agree with this! I was sold on my T/A the second I started it - there's a scariness that sets in when the car rumbles to life. If that doesn't have an effect on someone, then they're not really looking to buy a car like that from the outset.

 

I don't think someone looking yo buy an SS, or Z/28 will necessarily cross shop a Genesis. V6 intenders certainly might

 

The Camaro will be a badass car when it comes out, but I bet it'll get killed in sales.

But that's OK. It'll be like heavy metal. 10 times more badass than any teeny-booper bullsh*t on MTV, but something the public just doesn't go out and buy all that much.