retro, useless trunk, big, heavy.

 

not really.

 

Charlie, I think you overestimate Ford. I've read those rumors too, but somehow I don't think they'll really step up in the end. It would be entirely consistent for them to offer a 330 hp Mustang GT in a world where the Challenger R/T and the mass-market-V8 Camaro both have 400 hp, or close, and to try to make up the difference with special editions that are high priced and hard to find.

 

Zeta is not as flexible as you may think. Camaro will be the smallest car which will come off of Zeta and it will be larger than the concept.


Look at the prototype. Ed Welburn looks like a 5th grader next to it. This car will not be small.

 

I have been sitting right here for the last 40 years. whats that got to do with present and future models. I thought we were talking about present and future Mustangs and Camaros?

My concept of the new Mustang catching up is that the new Camaro from what little we do know it will be ahead in perfromance, options, styling and quality compared to the present Mustang. The Camaro is leap frogging Ford just as in the past in most areas and will be late but a better car.

The Mustang has only sold more cars many years because it was cheaper most of those years where both were available. GM was only behind in sales but not all other areas. Besides profit is what we need to worry about, is GM making money on the car.

If your so worried about the future models they why do drag my comments back 40 years?

There is just too much unknow on all these car to those here to start getting all worked up yet.

As for Image of the Malibu those at GM have already stated it may take till the next generation to start to undo what damage has been done for the last 25 years. The fact is they have to build a better car first and with the Bu they have.

Now is the time to start build a new image on a great car. Lutz has already stated GM is not going to win buyers back in 12-18 months. With this said we know they have long term goals set and have resonable expectations of their cars as well expectations of what the compitition is doing. GM is in good hands skilled and smart Automotive minds right now and not in the hands a lot of pretenders on the internet [including myself]. GM is in good hands.

It was not all that long ago Hyundia the [first Elan] ment Walking in Korean for most Americans because of really bad cars and now your worried about them competing. They too started with building a better cars first just as GM is now doing. It tooks some time but the past is forgotten with price and quality. Everyone hates Walmart but most shop there as they get a lot for their money. That is the key to Chevys future.

There are so many market, money and technology issue ahead that the automotive market may change as much or more than it has in any time in the past. Not all the player will make it. GM right now has a lot better chance than a few years ago and and it is improving 1 day at a time.

It is a time for hard work on building the best cars GM can and marketing them better. this is not time for getting too overly dramatic on thowing gauntlets.

 

Perhaps. The powertain rumors have been fast and furious lately though. I don't really see Fords powertrains as that much of a threat to Camaro though, GM Powertrain has it's act together and will be able to challenge all comers.

What I see as more of threat to Camaro is this rumored Huntsman platform. If what we've been hearing about it is true, Mustang will be going back to tidier ponycar dimensions very early into the 5th gen Camaro's life cycle.

 

That Hyundai sure better be smaller if its going to be a FI-6 and competitive with the Camaro.

 

Can you not see the flaws in this logic? I'm sure the '10 Camaro will surpass the current Mustang. It'll probably totally bitch slap a 1994 Mustang too. So what. Mustang and the rest are moving targets. Ford won't graciously stop the clock at 2005 for Camaro to catch up.

 

So in your logic GM is not looking past 2010? Hmmm if so I think some people in Detroit are getting a good chuckle right now. Talk about flawed thinking.

It has always been a game of one upmanship

And the 2012 Camaro will slap the 2011 Mustang too and so it goes. This is how the game is played and will be played for years.

That is unless Fords money problems on new car development slows them up a bit.

 

Charlie can speak for himself, but your comment on his logic was way off.

I Still don't see how Ford is playing catch up to a car that doesn't exist yet. And even if it is, or will, or was, or might....how can you even make such a claim when you also noted (correctly) that "There is just too much unknow on all these car....".

Too much unknown indeed.
Bob

 

Wow.

Please re-read you're own posts.

 

So you're comparing a car that doesn't exist, with a car that doesn't exist.

I've said it before and say it again.
You guys really shouldn't be worried about the power thing.
(both cars will have some really great engines...)
You should be more worried about the sales thing.

Who cares if you have 400, 450, 500hp if your not around to enjoy it.
That engine in a box really worked last time around didn't it.

 

Not comparing a thing just a prediction on how it more than likely play out just as it did in the past.

You are correct to worry about sales As we also should be worried about profitability. If the is not profitable that is the killer.

 

funny, cause Ed Welburn is about the size of a 5th grader

 

I simply don't believe 20-somethings will swarm over to Hyundai. Hyundai has no heritage, and no racing history. Most 20-somethings are all about image. My 21 year old drives an Audi A4 for a reason... image. Before that he drove an M3... image. While Hyundai has certainly changed buyer's impressions from when they first entered the auto market here in the States; they for the most part have only been purchased by older family oriented folks looking for a bargain. That could all change, however unless Hyundai does something drastically to change those impressions, they won't be as big of an impact as you think. Yes they'll sell, and if they perform well and are a bargin, educated enthusiasts will certainly take notice. However it won't be a massive flood of buyers and more than likely be a mere trickle.