They do much better than 11 -- especially the Lexus.

 

Guess we'll have to wait and see....just like we were saying 2 years ago about Camaro.

 

mercedez benz usa website, msrp $55,975

http://www.mercedes-amg.com/index2.h...oom/models/c63

www.mbusa.com

 

ya, but a car like the ISF is running an 8 speed automatic (GEARING!). Who knows what the AMG is running (i didnt bother to research) but its probably similar.

 

I am a Mustang Owner (My First Ford) Just getting that out front, I bought the
Mustang with out even driving it, I love the look so much I had to have one... I
wanted the Camaro since I first seen it at the autoshow.

You know I was concerned about the weight of the new camaro, but I am thinking
about it more and more and it's not really that big of a deal, it's still the fastest
stock 4 seat car on the block for under 39K, with the 4.5 Link rear it will handle like
it's on rails, and still leave the Beemers spun out on the twisties, this is a road car,
pure and simple, I can take it through the mountains and love every turn, nail it
over the negative camber hills and get that feeling in the pit of my stomach. this is
going to be a Fun Safe Car, with all the bells and whistles...

I am cool with it I am no longer going to be disapointed... Once I put it into the persective that this is not necesairly a drag car, It was designed with some europian thought, Handling, a "driving experience" it's a Road Car !!
I want one, come on people imagine sitting behind the wheel and mashing the gas
down, hearing all 6.2L roar, feel the torque press your spine against the seat. Have fun and enjoy

I am reading into the comments from GM engineers, they say it will be slightly
faster than the Challenger, the Challenger has avg time of 13.3 so I beleive avg
times from the Camaro will be 13.0 thats my guess.

From Drag Times
13.310 108.110 Dodge Challenger SRT8 2008 Stock 4140 lbs 425 HP 5spd Automatic

Future Drag Times listing
13.023 108.240 Chevrolet Camaro SS 2010 Stock 3900 lbs 400 hp 6spd Automatic

Th SS Camaro I feel is more of a compeditor to the Challenger than the current
Mustang GT, since they keep on using the SRT8 as a bench mark.

The only comparison to the Current Mustang is size..
The Mustang is lighter for many reasons, 1) 4.6L Aluminum Engine (it's smaller) 2)
Aluminum Hood and roof. 3) Solid Rear Axle not IRS.
4) SIZE..
....................10-Camaro.....05-Mustang
wheel base...........112.3......107.1
length..................190.4.....187.6
width...................75.5.......73.9
height................. 54.2.......55.4
track front...........63.7........62.8
track rear.............63.7.......63
F/R Bal................52/48......51/49
curb weight (lbs)...3,870......3,450

Here are some weight comarisons between the GT and GT500
4.6L 3V engine weighs ~420lbs. (Curb weight 3450)
5.4L 4V engine w/Supercharger weighs ~837lbs (Curb Weight 3920)
It's that Damn Iron Block....

Heres some thought on why the Camaro weight so much..
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.au...ch006-1280.jpg

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.au...ch009-1280.jpg

This car has got a STOUT chassis. You'll be thankful for it when these cars start seeing some serious power mod setups.
Think of it that way......

If you want a Drag Racer, buy a 4th gen and strip it doen to 2600 lbs and mod the hell out of it... Thats what I plan on doing

 

You seem to believe you are a well-connected fountain of knowledge. So tell us, how is Ford going to achieve this with the next Mustang? What features/performance will they sacrifice, and what materials will they build it of? (Don't say, 'transparent aluminum' ). Until you do, there's no reason for anyone to believe Ford will be able to just magically defy the laws of physics all the other carmakers obey.

 

Not slamming Ford, but one ting that may have escaped notice, unless I am mistaken, 4cam ( I believe that is the dudes name) was quoting 400 hp/360 lb-ft. if this is the case, then the car gets a nice boost top end, but has only 40 lb ft more torque than the current 4.6. if that is the case, then they would have to do almost nothing to strengthen the chasis. Just a thought, I am no engineer, nor do I know anyting about Fords future plans. Be interesting to see if they can deliver.

 

I don't know about that, There are plenty of 05-08 Mustangs Making 600-700hp with almost equal torque at the track without any structural issues.

A friend was running his V6 Mustang with 18lbs boost and 75 shot for over two years ran 10.9 in the 1/4, then popped the engine, now has a 5.4L Triton 3V turboed over 600 ft lbs tq no frame twist and lift the tires off the ground with an iron block in it. (600lbs)

The Mustang Frame is a nice redesign and is stought enough to handle the GT500 and KR500, how about a GT500 with bolt-ons in the 9's http://www.evoperform.com/shop/

here is a list of some of their times

 

It's an incredibly simple concept. When you start out with a lighter chassis, you're going to end up lighter.

It may gain some weight depending on the specs of the V8, but some 400 pounds more?

 

Indeed, nor should they have too, the current car is rated for 600hp with a warranty. The 07 up cars gained 70 pounds of weight when they made the body ready for GT500 duty. A 400/360 5.0 wont stress the current car much at all. There is already a heavy duty 8.8 with the Bullitt/GT500 (bigger axle bearings and I've heard stouter material in the center section).

Any real weight gain will be due to the 4v 5.0 and M6 trans plus whatever they do with the interior.

Ford has some weight saving options in there somewhere I'm sure - the roof panel could easily be replaced with aluminum (I cant see it being a major saftey piece and by dint a structural member since you can get a glass roof as an option now - and yes I know glass is hella stiffer than steel, but in a roll over I dont think that would be much comfort when a blunt object shatters it versus bending a steel roof).

 

LA auto show (Nov 19-20) is suppsed to be the reveal date for the MCE car. Unfortunately for the Blue Oval faithful, we dont have a Scott to keep things in perspective or "keep the faith" as it were.

 

well don't get me wrong. I hope Ford can pull it off. I'm always in favor of a US automaker being in the winner's circle. I just am not seeing how they will do it.

400 HP means more (heavier) brakes, more (heavier) suspension parts, bigger (heavier) fuel tank, and on and on. They are certainly not going to get a weight 'freebie' from cutting creature comforts like AC, Sync telematics, stereo etc in this segment. Ditto for all the modern safety gadgets. So - there you have it - voila, the 3800-4000 lb 400 hp value performance 2+2 coupe.

 

Heavier duty brakes - probably

Heavier suspension parts not really - the only change besides the stronger 8.8 (which seems to be possibly a scant few pounds to really non at all) was a change in durometer on the rear arms. GT500 front control arms are a bit stronger, but they have to cope with a S/C DOHC 5.4 with an iron block (vs. what is most likely going to be an all aluminum 4v 5.0)

New 5.0 is supposed to be more fuel effcient and the current car has a 15 gallon tank, I dont think there is much need to change it.

Meeting new safety reqs might ad some weight???

Interior might add some weight ?????

 

Good post but I just want to point out a few things...

The LS3 weighs the same as the 3v 4.6 (420lbs)

3450 was the weight of the average GT for 05. For 07 all models of Mustang got 70-90lbs worth of structural reinforcements to handle the GT500 motor. I personally watched a 5 speed 07 GT come in at 3540lbs and I have yet to hear of any 07+ owners having one scale less than 3500 stock.

With mod motors an aluminum block only saves 80lbs over an iron one.

 

Charlie - let me ask you something.

Why is it that you feel your wants represent other Camaro owners and prospective buyers?

Did it ever occur to you that we have spent an incredible amount of time talking to Camaro enthusiasts? -- also Mustang owners? -- (the list goes on...) -- and that we pulled Camaro/Firebird enthusiasts into Milford to find out what they -- and their club members/website members wanted in a car? I have spent the last dozen years going around the United States and Canada visiting Camaro/Firebird owners and asking their opinions on what they'd like in a next-gen car -- and I listened -- and I wrote the stuff down at the end of each day. (and there WERE some bizarre requests now and then..........)

I'm getting upset with you because you don't want to listen to anyone else's opinion. We sat in Chicago and I gave you a whole laundry list of reasons why the car weighs more than you or me or anyone would like -- but I also told you about WHY the weight is there -- and I explained pricing -- and what people have asked for. I also told you that we were working diligently to remove every once we could..........


If it's so easy to get the weight down, why is it that other cars have the same problem???

Believe me - I don't like this controversy - but frankly I'm tired of the insults you hurl toward me and my co-workers.

I'm sorry you don't like the car...I'm confused as to how you can jump to conclusions without ever having sat in the car -- or driven it.

As to weight - please explain how the 1999 Camaro SS with 1LE could outperform a Corvette Z51 on a road course - time and time again........