Are you suggesting that anyone who voices a negative opinion about Camaro be banned?

You're right, I guess there isn't much to say about weight anymore. Would you like to hear my take on the interior? Probably not. Let's just say I really do like the exterior and leave it at that.

By the way, Charlie's guesses that the 5th Gen won't have a run similar in length to the previous three generations are based on what I would consider to be a pretty solid business and market analysis. Don't take it so personally. We're all hoping this car does well for a few years so that it paves the way for a bright future for Camaro long past the run of Zeta cars.

 

The G8 is not built here. You will soon have an architecture in Zeta that is being built in one North American plant at much lower than capable numbers for that plant. That's what he's getting at. Frankly, it's a recipe that starts to sound frighteningly close to St. Therese.

 

Repeating myself from earlier in this thread...

Look at how this thread started and then look where it went and why. People who are here to drag everyone else down, shouldn't be. Take that any way you like it.

 

A nine or ten year run would be exceptionally long by modern standards. Other than the New Beetle and maybe cargo vans, I can't think of any car which has stayed on the market for that long. Back in the 70s/80s yes, today no. Also, all due respect, but the 4th gens aren't a very good example, for reasons that have been covered here repeatedly.

 

No, I develop, design and engineer motor vehicles for a living. Vehicle architecture, suspension geometry, design and analysis of frame and other primary structures, etc.

I did formerly work for Lockheed Martin (advanced structures), which given the gummint's support of the military-industrial complex could be considered a form of "working for the Government".

 

If the Z51 was on OEM's run-flats and the Camaro on KD's, the 1LE's real advantage was TIRES.

Suffice it to say, on similar DOT competition tires, and with similar driver talent, 1LE Camaros are NOT faster than same-year Corvettes in autoX competition.

Still, point taken that excessive weight can be overcome if given other advantages.

 

The truth is, I am here exclusively for your entertainment

 

There is nothing really to elaborate. Your continued bashing of the weight of this car is not the view of most people who will buy this car. I would venture
to say only a fraction of the potential buyers are even concerned. You see, us
as a group up here don't represent squat compared to all the potential buyers,
and the majority of folks up here are not freaking out over the weight. I guess
what it boils down to is that if everyone who thinks like you did not buy a
Camaro, the sales missed would not even being noticed.

 

I got news for you. The F-body is NOT living on. This is not an F-body, not
even close.

 

Exactly, go **** on someone else's parade.

 

If you'd been on here in 2002 saying that in 2008, the demand for SUVs over the previous 20 years would stop, and the small cars that had been languishing for 20 years would suddenly be in demand, I'd give you 100% credit.

But at this point, all I can say is that the hindsight crystal ball works really well.

An ounce of foresight saw it coming -- yes. But you would have needed much more to say exactly when it was coming.

For all we knew 10 years ago, it wasn't coming until 2018, or it was coming in 2002.

 

Twice in one day!!!


I found this site by searching next generation camaro because I was hungry for any information on the new Camaro. I was impessed with all the people that were just as eager as I. I guess not to many people were thinking realisticly when it came to weight. I read about how alot of you were hoping for a 6 speed tranny when I would be happy with 5 and a 5th Gen. And when there were hints of an LS 3 I didnt know weather to **** or go blind I was so happy (I did neither)But though it all I held no hopes that this car was going to be lighter than a Mudstain dont get me wrong they are good looking cars just not me! I have been enthusiastic untill now ask yourself just how many people do the same search that I did to find out about this car and are reading this pissing and moaning about weight that you should have expected to begin with!!! You all say you want this car to do well but you couldnt prove it by me AN OUTSIDER that joined for information!!!

I figure this site might make up maybe .4% of Camaro sales but you could be 100% responsible for killing the car before it even gets started!
From what I gather I dont see too many people on this site that cant afford a new car well my hopes are for high production #s so I can maybe buy a used 5th Gen!

If you want the car to do well can the negetivity I have never drove 1 but take a look at the spec sheet again remember all th things you wanted in the car and be realistic I actually wanted a stripper(check my posts its there) why because I didnt have my head in the sand about the weight of the car!!!


From what I see in the spec sheet I see alot of hours of design work! anything unexpected was a pleasure if I could I would buy everyone that spent countless hours a beer and I dont drink!

My point is alot of people are reading if you dont like the car you and your money can go to Mustang .com and P&M there Misery loves company I guess!

 

I think people should take a deep breath and remember that this is the ONLY place on the web where semi-intelligent people can "debate" matters Camaro.....that being said, I don't want this place to turn into a cheerleader's paradise either.

Dan, Charlie, Bob and others have very valid points as they relate to what the Camaro "could" have been.......but that being said, now that we know what the Camaro "is" we need to concentrate our energy on what possibly can be done, either OEM or aftermarket to make the car into something more of what we, individually want from it.

I'd like nothing more than to get into a serious discussion with people like Doug Houlihan and other platform engineers as to what they would have done, given more of a budget or less of a cost constraint.

Whenever someone mentions making something lighter, the end cost is always brought up.....while that is true, it's also true that 'some of us' (true Z/28 zealots) would be willing to pay a premium for a car that is lighter and therefore would perform better even without a different engine.....of course part of the premium has to be for better suspension pieces....nothing comes free

That's why I asked on one of these threads (can't remember which at the moment...I'm old ya' know) ....If the SC'd LSA engine and it's accompanying reinforcements might add a $15k premium to an SS Package........then what say we take $5k of that for even better suspension pieces and the remaining $10k be spent on lightening efforts...i.e. more uses of aluminum in suspension control arms, IRS and engine cradles, Titanium mufflers and of course de-contenting might help to offset some of the costs.....

If we could get our minds together and come up with a list of ideas and questions, I'll see that we get them to those who might have a response......even if it's a dead end street.

Now, let's get past the p*ssin' contest before everyone gets wet and move onto something 'constructive'.

 

Remember the thread a couple of weeks ago when I mentioned how you came across? And how negatively you reacted?

Some of your posts are either insulting or full of hyperbole, which can come across as insulting even when not intended that way.

On the other hand, I see Scott reacting pretty calmly for the most part.

From what I've seen, Charlie, you don't like criticism, though you've very quick to hand it out.

Take that for what it's worth to you (and I think I know what that is, which is why I'm wrapping this post up now ).

 

Everyone tends to notice the squeaky wheels. Probably the best thing to do in this case is to ignore them instead of trying to oil them, but knowing what's best and doing it are two different things.

I actually think that most people on this site are happy about the car.

In any case, the internet is full of noise, because it's free to post. Try not to let it affect you.