Just coming back from the NY auto show, I would disagree about the Challenger R/T's interior/dash. To me the Challenger felt like it was a generation behind. Camaro dash is love it or hate it. We that said I think the Camaro should get a new interior for 2013. Heck every car should be revised every 3 years. Interior styling seems to go stale a lot quicker than the exterior. The New Camaro is an instant classic. Other than maybe offering more wheel choices and maybe other grills, nothing on the outside needs to be changed between now and the time the 6th gen comes out in 2015.

 

agreed with you on Challenger....Bit of a looker on the street but a barge to drive....go try one....just feels old...Curious where you get your info that Camaro "re-design is 2015....Is this public info or just an assumption >>>??

 

You couldn't find it because there isn't one! You just press on the door, and when you let go it pops open. My '09 Aura is the same way, and I believe this is quite common on new cars.

 

Sir please refer to post #15

 

Saw that, and meant to reference that it was pointed out earlier. It didn't seem like anyone saw that response, hence my post.

 

I suspect you're right.

Been thinking about doing just that to my B4C. I've been running ceramic pads the past few years and want to upgrade to Vette calipers (since I already have Vette rims and running 275s). The brakes in my car are infact very good compared to other vehicles I've driven.


I tend not to get into debates with fanatics of the religous sort or those who simply think things can't improve..... but what the heck. I don't come here often anymore.



The Camaro was built by the "old", "good-enough" General Motors Corperation.

The "new" General Motors Company actually wants to build the best cars around, and seems willing to do what it takes to do so..... Including listening to feedback.

The new Mustang interior is top drawer for it's class. It now has firepower to edge out both the Camaro V6 and the SS. Both the Challenger and the Mustang have better interior materials than the Camaro. Mustang's interior even manages to look upscale to boot.

Challenger is getting a new interior and styling tweaks year after next. A new more stylish Mustang design is locked in. Toyota is getting back in on the RWD coupe market. Hyundai has a RWD coupe.

Camaro's current styling alone isn't going to carry it forever.

GM's got to get proactive and get competitive with Camaro, and not rest on it's laurels thinking cheap interiors, understeer, and other fair issues brought up need cost analysis, data, and a detailed study before it's dealt with. Competetors will have you playing a constant game of catch-up because they simply act.

Again, Camaro is a very good car. The V6 ranks as a GREAT car in my book.

But when you get to the price level of the SS, you simply just paid $10,000+ for an engine. You still get everything else (including the traffic stopping star power and still-excellent GM brakes) in a cheaper-than-Genesis coupe V6 Camaro.

 

In 1997, just under 100,000 people bought a Chevrolet Camaro.

5 years later, it sold 42,000.

That same year Camaro was killed.


Mustang sales went from 108,000 in 1997 to 216,000 in 2000.

There's quite a few lessons to be learned here that relate to your above post.




Agree that the new Camaro is destined to be a classic. But as with the '64 Mustang and those old enough to remember them, overstyled cars that you see all over the place go down a deep slope before they spring back and become classics.

As for the Challenger, the dash design isn't the most modern. But the padded panels (like the Mustang) and the seats both front and rear, and even the door panels are made from and pretty nice stuff and look good in the process.


Saw it, tried it (on another Camaro), embarassed by it.

 

That was a completely different scenario then. GM wanted to kill the F-bods. They redesigned them and pulled all advertising money. The LS1 cars almost didn't happen. I seem to remember almost every year from 98-02 it was said that the cars were getting canceled. GM wouldn't offer rebates, I remember, I was looking to buy a 2001 Z28. Although nearly every other GM car had massive rebates.

GM views the 2010 in a totally different light, they actually seem to care about the nameplate again.

 

"On the flip side, I thing all criticism of Camaro's handling is also overrated. The SS did everything I wanted it to. Yes, I even threw it around quite a bit. It did squeel a little where my B4C would have simply bitten and hung on, but I'm also running Nitto NT05s on my car as well. The only way of getting more bite is applying liberal amounts of industrial glue to your rims.

I found the Camaro SS very balenced, very easy to drive fast... OK... very fast...and it was comfortable to throw around in the process."

This was from the original comment on page 1....huh....!!...There goes old 426HPSS railing again about his fine car....
This June 3rd my SS will be one year old. Perfect first year with NOT ONE solitary issue of any kind....Not bad for a car designed by the "old GM"....
huh !

 

I do not understand the implication that the HFV6 was somehow more "deeply" engineered than the LS3. The fact that the LS3 has evolved from the LS1 and LS2 doesn't mean it wasn't a deep effort. I personally think it underscores how good the first Gen IIIs were. And the Gen IV versions, including the LS3, have years of experience and further development baked into them.

GM takes the small block VERY seriously, as they sell 'em by the squillions.

Also, while the new Camaro won't run with a base Vette, it is clearly a faster car than the stock LS1 car was. Yes, we've heard of the outliers who ran low 13s or even the occasional high 12. But every instrumented test I've seen of the new Camaro has it running about 13.0 @ 109-111 mph. Every instrumented test I recall seeing of stock 4th gens put them in the 13.6-13.8 @ 104 mph range.

FWIW, Car and Driver just released their head-to-head test of the V6 and V8 versions of the Mustang and Camaro. While they picked the Mustang GT as the winner (as I knew they would, as they even chose the much slower 2010 GT, because they prefer its more tossable nature, influenced heavily in my opinion by the visibility difficulties in the Camaro), the Camaro actually outperformed the Mustang in the speed contests. In braking, they were all on top of each other, but the Mustang had a thin lead. Also, the V6 versions both stopped shorter than their V8 counterparts. The Mustang had the advantage in skidpad grip, while the Camaro took the honors in the lane change maneuver. The Camaro was also significantly quieter, while the Stang had a 1 mpg edge in observed fuel economy.

The primary things holding the Camaro back are weight and, more significantly (I think), the visibility problem. The common theme seems to be that the Camaro feels "big". Yet dimensionally, it is only 2 inches longer and 1.5 inches wider. I think the longer wheelbase combined with the "in a cave" feeling makes the car seem "big" to testers more than the actual weight itself.

I really, really want to see the car released with 275s all around. The lighter 4th gen came this way in SS / WS6 form; why does the bigger, heavier 5th gen come with puny 245s up front? I think that will go a long way toward fixing any deficiency in cornering grip and understeer that the Camaro may have (even though, by most accounts, the car is an excellent handler). It won't fix the poor visibility, which is too bad. However, a convertible with the top down shouldn't have much of a claustrophobic effect...

 

I'll bet you $5 that the real answer is tramlining.

Note that the C4 Corvette had 275s up front, and the C5 had 245s (non-Z06). Same reason!

 

Probably true. (We were just discussion tramlining in a lounge thread, as you may be aware. )Of course, the Z06 and ZR1 have some wide rubber up front. They are more dedicated performance versions, though, and perhaps GM figures that those more hardcore owners will deal with that.

I wouldn't be opposed to the 275s being part of a "track pack" of sorts, or a standalone option.

 

Wow guy, you do so luv your fourth gen. And so do I. I have had 2 ( 2kz28 and 2000SS ) as well as a 2004 gto. Having driving the snot out of and modded all of these( many 1/4mi runs etc. ) I guess that qualifies me as an expert in my own mind.

Anyways like you I have an opinion, mine is that the f5 beats the ls1 camaros on all fronts, and the gtos. I have piled up over 200,000 miles on those three and so far the F5 wins. For me it balances the comfort, quality, and performance in one package.

This is just my opinion, I don't work for a car rag or gm or ford. Just an average dude who like cars and has logged more than 3 days in an 2010 Camaro SS and has driven LSx cars for the last 12 years.

Take it for what it's worth. Just an Opinion , just like yours.

Everything could be better but that is why CRACK was made, look how good that turned out

 

my sentiments exactly....