I hate it when people set a specific number of pounds and call it a dealbreaker if a car weighs more than that.

Seriously, if the car weighs 3749 pounds, you're cool with it, but as soon as it hits 3750 you absolutely will not consider it?

If you're a reasonable person, you'll *hope* that it's as light as possible, and when it comes out, you'll go test drive one. If you like the way it handles, brakes, accelerates, rides, and performs in general, then you might buy it. If you don't, you won't.

Steadfastly refusing to purchase a car simply because its weight is over some arbitrary limit is nothing short of ridiculous.

 

In your opinion of course. If I have $30,000+ to spend, I'm going to spend it however I'd please, and I don't feel like I'd need to explain it or justify it.

 

lol...that was a bit of a strawman, wasn't it?

 

completely agree..

 

The tested G8s are all +/- 4100 pounds on the scales (curb weight). They all have the sport and premium packages + sunroof.

 

Mustang at 3500 lbs and 400hp (if the rumors are correct), I'll take that

 

The rumors probably aren't correct

 

probalby, as Ford guy, you never get your hopes up about power. You hear 400, you expect 315, even if it is supposed to be a DOHC 4v GDI 5.0 with VVT

 

Seriously guys, I see all these claims about how a 3200 lb car with 300 hp is so much better than a 3900 lb car with 500 hp....where's some links to some actual performance numbers for a real comparison??

I feel like a lot of numbers are being pulled from hats....and people are deciding to buy or not buy based on some arbitrary numbers.

I've owned a few F-Bodies, and to me, the biggest difference in handling was the IROC had stiffer springs & shocks, larger swaybars, larger wheels with low profile tires...same for the 2 Grand Ams I've owned, difference was night & day!

How much better, in actual numbers, (data) is a 500 lb lighter car with 200 less hp?? (and probably 180 less lbft torque)(With very similar equipment.)

Are the gains really worth the headaches?

I want the Camaro as light as possible too, for racing purposes, but where should the real line be drawn...numbers? support?

Seeing the new G8 performance has me rethinking a little.

I'll search a few sites too.

 

Great. So worst case scenario the Camaro weighs the same as the Challenger, and comes with an L76, it'll still have great performance.

 

You absolutely don't need to justify it.

However, if you do choose to share your reason with us, and it turns out that your reason is ridiculous, we have every right to make fun of you for it.

No. For it to be a straw man, I would have had to make it up. GMRULZ explicitly said that 3750+ is a deal breaker for him, which means he would consider the car at 3749, but would not at 3750. That's ridiculous.

 

I think you need to look up the definition of a strawman argument.

The part where you are saying "which means" is you taking his point and making it into the most extreme possible version of it, and then saying that's ridiculous. But that's not what he said. He did not say 3749 is ok and 3750 is not. You extrapolated that for the purpose of calling it ridiculous. And so...that....is a strawman Not trying to start a fight...but it is.

Weight is an arbitrary thing, but to talk about it, you gotta say something.....you gotta put a limit on it somewhere, but OF COURSE that limit is arbitrary and subject to other things. We all know this. If the car feels like it weighs less than it does and drives great, I'm sure he'd still consider it. But putting a line in the sand is a good way to say "ok look this has gone far enough....no more...we do not want heavy and once you're getting near this, that's not ok anymore."

A touchy subject, to be sure, but only because we're all camaro enthusiasts. We care about the subject, and about the car. So we agree on something The problem is coming from people who care about different THINGS about the car. Some of us see it as nothing but a performance icon, and to hell with HOW it gets that performance as long as it has it...and some of us value the subjective driving experience and 'feel' above absolute performance, in which weight plays a very large role.

I've got no doubt that the car is going to be a stellar performer. Look at the 3900 pound Nissan GT-R. It's phenominal, and I'd love to have one. Weight is not the only concern here. It's just that we'd really like it if weight were kept more in check, because it's a very hard thing to modify in the aftermarket....and costly to get a heavier car to perform on the same level, as well as making it less fuel efficient. And the subjective handling feel of lighter cars is simply better and more "connected."

Methinks we should be focusing more on the things we AGREE on than the little details we do not.

 

Yes, the G8 is great, and a dynamic success. So the camaro will be too, cuz it's kinda a chopped version of that.

However...

*Yoda* Raw performance numbers do not the whole story tell hmmmm?

 

Hey Charlie (may I call you Charlie?),

I'm curious about your answer to this. Since we've had a lot of weight threads, I'm curious as to what you'd give up to save weight. If a live axle saved 100 pounds over a similarly strong, relatively inexpensive IRS, would you be willing to give up the IRS, or would you still want the IRS?

I understand that this is purely hypothetical.

 

I did. I was not familiar with the term before reading your post.

The phrase "3750+ is a deal-breaker" means that he would consider the car at 3749 but not at 3750. Do you disagree with that?