Btw, when I mentioned "base Camaro that no one would want", I meant that literally. I.e. a base Camaro with no options at all. So yours didn't fall into that category.

Btw, a 210hp 327 with single exhaust is probably around 150hp in today's money. Amazing that you get more power out of a 4 now.

 

And yet I am anyways. Miraculous

^^^^ Just yankin' your chain. But really...that is a strawman, and I think you've completely missed the point of what he was trying to say. Trying to pick apart his words instead of looking at what he meant, so to speak. It's all good. I think the camaro is probably going to be 3748, so he should be safe haha

 

my guess: 3700 and not a penny more.

 

You're completely out of your mind. I cant believe anyone would take what he said so literally to mean that he'd buy the car happily if it was 3749, but not buy it at 3750. Unless maybe you're autistic or something?

The strawman is that you're attacking the notion of a 1lb difference in weight being the deciding factor in buying the car. He *never* said that in exactly that way, and interpreting what he said in such a narrowminded and ridiculous fashion so as to attack it easily is the strawman.

Or then again, maybe you're right, but did he mean 3750 with a full tank of gas or not? And how optioned? Maybe he'd be willing to dump the floormats if it was 3751 to get it down to 3749.8. Or drive with half a tank of gas at all times to get it from 3800 down to 3740.

 

This may be a stupid comment, but since Lutz proclaimed that "the v6 model has near 50-50 weight distribution" cant we extrapolate from there to come up with a ballpark curbweight? surely stats exist for what the 3.6 di motor weighs and i would imagine that we have at least some idea of what the chassis weighs (since the g8 is riding on it). Im crashing so someone else can look it up if they're so inclined, or simply let this post fade into oblivion like so many others...just thought a little sanity might throw some water on an overly hashed out argument. Peace!

 

Let me explain. I would like the car to be close to 3500 lbs, so I really don`t want it to be much over that weight. A couple of Ls3 vette`s w/ a big LG motorsports cam, and the bolt ons, unmolested heads, have put down 500rwhp. I want to run high 10`s (10.8 to be exact, any more would be a bonus) w/ my new Camaro w/ the above setup no power adder and 3:73 gears w/ an auto and a stall.

I had a 96 trans am w/ an LT1 stock bottom end no power adder , 4k stall, 3:73 gears that ran 11.4`s all day long. (Which for a LT1 stock bottom end no power adder is about as good as it gets) It had 390rwhp (dynojet) and weighed in at 3240 (some weight reduction done) w/ out me and 3400 w/ me in it.

Here`s a link to a vid of me beating up on a new z06:

http://s53.photobucket.com/albums/g7...gmrulzbest.flv

Here`s the method to my madness of coming up w/ an arbitrary weight number:

So using the above car the 96 TA needing 60 more rwhp (10rwhp to gain 1/10th "roughly") to reach 10.8 in the 1/4. 11.4-6=10.8 (theoretically of course) and adding 510lbs more weight ie.. the new Camaro 3750lbs-3240lbs TA, and considering 100lbs roughly equated to a 1/10th increase in the quarter at least thats how it worked in my last car, I will need 110rwhp more than the TA had to reach 10.8 in the new Camaro if it s 3750lbs. (now again all of this is just and educated "guess" from a lot of years drag racing the TA.)

So if the Camaro is more than 3750lbs I will most likely not make my goal of a Cam only new Camaro running 10.8`s no power adder. It`s possible but highly unlikely if it weighs a whole lot more than that. I came to the weight conclusion through working the numbers "hypothetically" to reach 10.8. It would be much easier if it weighs less to reach that number. Over that I doubt it will make it.Obviously if it weighs 3751, 3775 I would still buy it, so come on guys give me a break here. Its always possible that even at that weight it will not make my goal, as every set up is different, and heck this car might not be able launch like the TA did w/ the independent susp ect.. but I will sure try and make it do it!

So if its too much of a porker I most likely will get a 4th gen LS car and go crazy w/ the left over cash and it will be much faster than the 10.8. I`ve already been the 4th gen route however, and I really like this new car.

I have 4 lines of thinking right now.

Buy new Camaro automatic A6 and keep my 06 mn6 Vette. ( this is my favorite option.) 1 car for the drags 1 for the roadcorse.

Buy 4th gen auto for drag racing, keep 06 mn6 Vette.

Sell 06 Ls2 Mn6 vette buy Ls3 auto vette go crazy w/ mods incl blower.

Sell 06 Mn6 vette and buy a z06 and have no money left over...Lol...

I don`t like car payments..

So in closing that number didn`t just come out of the air...Lol.. I put a little thought into it wether its right or wrong is anybodies guess, and if you disagree w/ how I came up w/ it, no problem, w/ all have our own opinions, and I certainly don`t think I know everything. But remember I won`t not buy it if its slightly about that, as others have said you have to draw a line somewhere and adjust from there if need be).

 

GMRULZ, what do you think of a 4,000+ lb, 4dr, G8 running very low 13's with only tune, with only 361 flywheel hp and 380lbft flywheel torque?
Running the same as the faster LT1's did new.
Theoretically, similar mods should yield similar results as your TA even while toting a near extra 800lbs!
So...what would a Camaro weight 300+lbs less run, with better suspension, weight distribution, gearing and grip and an +60hp LS3?
Just thinkin......?
http://www.fquick.com/videos/Pontiac_G8_Track_Run/5298

 

"Dealbreaker" is a strong word. It doesn't leave room for any interpretation. For instance, if I were to say that smoking cigarettes is a dealbreaker for me on the dating scene, it's logical for you to assume that even a girl who smokes just one cigarette, once in a while, would be unacceptable to me. You'd be right. If that weren't the case, I shouldn't have used the word "dealbreaker."

I was fairly sure GMRULZ didn't mean "dealbreaker," and the problem I have is that he didn't say what he really meant.

How do I know? Because he has now explained what he meant:

Which goes directly against his previous statement that 3750+ is a dealbreaker for him. It's not. It's the point at which he'll concerned that Camaro might not be able to meet his performance goals. That is a perfectly reasonable thing to say.

On a side note, I also think it's a touch silly to base a $30,000 new-car-buying decision on whether you can run 10.8 with just a cam. If you want a drag car, a brand new vehicle with IRS is probably not your best choice. That said, it's not my money. At least he knows what he wants and is up-front about it.

 

It was all pretty conceptual at the time. The Torana had a lower dominant structure like the Solstice, but that's pretty much where the similarities ended.

And if the Camaro would have been based on something like that, it would have been packaged for an available V8.

Considering CAFE and what seems to be happening with Zeta, I wonder what GM decision makers would have done, if they could go back in time and get a 're-do'.

 

Lower dominant structure?

 

Wow, I suppose then that if someone told you it was 90 degree`s outside, you would run and check the thermometer to see,and if it was 90.5 you would hammer them...You seem to live in some exact literal world. Heck there are even tolerances on bearings and such in an engine, just because it says .040 oversize it could be .0400001 over which would be in the tolerance range.. Same thing would apply here. Gray area.

Its a line in the sand for me at 3750. Thats it. If it crosses slightly then I`m OK w/ it. Too much I`m done.

Here`s an example: you go out on a date and the girl says to you after its gets hot and heavy that you can only go to second base no further. That is a line in the sand. She gets into the moment and lets you go to third base but doesn`t let you linger there long. She meant what she said but everything is not always black and white. But she had to give you a stopping point. Hence the 3750 cap for me.

As far as the way I spend my money you are right, it is my decsion. Since I will pay cash for the car, and I should have about 36k by order time, I will only have enough money left over for a cam only set up, again, I don`t like debt and will only spend what I have. W/ a 4th gen I would most likely have about 20k left for mods. I want a car that will run high 10`s on motor, or a blown car that will run much lower.


I followed your links to your cars, here`s that Leman Blue color you want to paint your 4th gen. I like the color as well, thats why I ordered my car w/ it. By the way very shiney GN, your reflection is like a mirror, you can even see I guess its your wife back in the distance sitting in a chair..

 

Thats pretty good w/ nothing but a tune.

I guess we will have to wait and see on the 1/4 times. Setup is key. my plan was to set up the Camaro as close to my TA as possible, as it was one of the fastest stock bottom end no power adder cars in the country. It still takes more hp to move more weight though.

 

Well said. My thoughts exactly. You sure you haven`t been in my head lately? as this is scary...

 

Your examples (temperature and bearing tolerances) are rounding. There's nothing wrong with rounding (although if it was 85 degrees and you rounded it up and told me 100, that would be excessive and I would still complain).

I look at a "line in the sand" the in a similar way as I do "dealbreaker." Those phrases set a hard limit, and if you don't mean to impose a hard limit, you shouldn't use those phrases.

Think about the "line in the sand" thing literally. You're on the beach, and a guy draws a line in the sand, and says that anyone who crosses the line is with him, anyone else is not. If you stepped a couple inches past the line, but didn't actually walk the remaining few feet to him and the others that had joined him already, how do you think that's going to be interpreted?

That's not an example of a line in the sand. A line in the sand implies the division of a group into two smaller groups, usually people of differing opinions. That's an example of a limit. I'll work with it anyway, because your mis-usage (line in the sand = limit) is very common and I know what you are trying to say.

It's always acceptable to revise a previously-made decision based on new information (I wish more politicians felt this way). That's what happened in your scenario -- the girl decided that third base would be okay for a moment. That's why it's always wise to avoid setting limits when it's entirely feasible that you could gain new information before it came time to actually make the decision, and that's what I'm advocating for here.

Even worse than a limit is your previously chosen term: a dealbreaker. What if the girl had told you, in all seriousness, that she'd never date you again if you tried to get to third base? What kind of message does that send? Why would she do that? She would be smarter to just put a stop to it as soon as she feels that going further would be uncomfortable.

Likewise, you should wait until Camaro comes out, see how much it weighs, see how much horsepower it has, test drive it, see if you like the colors it comes in, see what gear ratios they put in the A6 and in the rear end, wait for some people to get some performance numbers out of it, and then figure out if it's going to make you happy and if it will be capable of your performance goals. To break the deal (or even threaten to break the deal) before you know the terms is silly.

After all this bantering, let me make myself clear. I wish that you (and others who have made similar comments in the past which may or may not have escaped my attention) would say something like this instead:

It will be hard for me to meet my performance goals and stay within my budget if the 5th gen weighs more than 3750 lbs.

Sure, it's a little more to type, but it's much more clear about your wishes and a lot less negative toward the car. Camaro needs as much positive support as it can get, and to be negative about it because you're worried you might not be able to run 10's with just a cam is exactly the sort of ridiculousness we can do without.

Side note: have you ever actually been on a date and had a girl tell you how far she was going to let you go in advance?

Must be nice. I wish I had that kind of money on hand.

Yep, that's her.

 

Hopefully the "bigger is always better" philosophy inside is becoming less dominant.

As you and I already believe, smaller is often better.

You see the same thing from the guy at Cadillac who said he didn't want to go smaller than a CTS. Hopefully he's been convinced otherwise.