I don't. I don't believe Alpha needs to compete against those. Two of those cars above weigh nearly 4000 pounds, while the M3 (which actually has 414hp -- I wouldn't say that's way over 400) weighs between 3600 and 3700.

I would hope to see the Alpha coming in below 3600, even with max equipment of 50 airbags, a megawatt stereo, nav-o-tainment, and 22" wheels (all but weight maybe slightly exaggerated).

If we're asking for a light car, we have to quit asking for mega-horsepower.

 

I'd be 100% happy if Camaro came out at 3500lbs when optioned with a turbo-V6 making 320 horsepower, with a good suspension package and room for further improvements like buying myself a carbon fiber hood and removing things I wouldn't be using, like rear seats, some of the sound insulation, some of the airbags, and installing recaros.

100% happy. I plan on keeping my Camaro for MANY years and turning it into a street legal weekend warrior, so I'll have plenty of time to improve the breed after the warranty is up.

Personally I think that the auto companies should be focusing on downsizing or lightening vehicles while lowering weight, not horsepower wars. Horsepower wars result in 3900lb one-trick-pony Mustangs. Mazda is probably my favorite automaker simple because this seems to be the route they've largely taken. "zoom-zoom" over smashing your into the back of your seat. I can always buy face distorting power aftermarket. I can't redesign the frame of the vehicle.

But really....I'm going to be quite pleased with a camaro that's 3700lbs. I don't really see that weight target as too difficult to meet. The car is substantially smaller than the G8. With vestigial rear seats, intelligent weight savings when designing the interior to be more performance oriented and less "plush", and some smart decisions in terms of using fiberglass for some of the body panels, 3700 seems well within reach. Assuming, of course, that the vehicle architecture is able to be "chopped" in a better manner than the laughably overweight challenger. Substantially shorter but still 4000+lbs? Please. I'd rather buy a truck. At least it would be useful for more than just getting stared at.

 

I agree and I think the auto manufacturers will agree as well. I also think that this gen Camaro will be a relatively short run, partly because of that.

 

I definitely have obsessive and compulsive tendencies, but I am nowhere near anything that should be called a disorder.

I'm no troll. I just like to debate.

 

Uh Oh... dude,

Someone else used the term "Dealbreaker". Time to do what you do best....

Linky:

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...=596696&page=5


Ok guys, was I wrong to feed his compulsion??? It`s just so Dang entertaining I couldn`t help myself....

 

https://www.camaroz28.com/forums/sho...09#post5308509

 

You know Al, I'm not bothered one bit by that - if that turns out to be true.

I've driven a slew of 400 horse GTO's for example, and having more power, was last on my list of things that would make them more satisfying to drive.

I'm far more concerned about power to weight ratio than ultimate power anyways. I'd definitely take less power for less mass. Because less mass makes EVERYTHING about a car more fun - and isn't more fun what we're all looking for?

 

No because half of the people don't go over 50% throttle and yet still boast about how much horsepower they have.

 

Agreed, agreed, but Im thinking more on the scale that if GM is going to make a sub-CTS type car, where it could take on cars like the 3/A4/IS/G better, then I think there needs to be a bit more tuning up for the kind of power that these vehicles pack. I feel that GM will once again make a car that slots between vehicle segments, not take them head on.
Example is the CTS. Size of a 5, priced like a 3, with options that are not up to par with the 5 but matching the 3.
This "BTS" car on Alpha will split the 1 and 3 it seems. Be sized like a 3, but priced like a 1, and of course go against the 1, not the 3.
Thing is, in Europe, they dont look at the price point, but the size point. They dont see the CTS as a 3 series fighter, they see it as it is, a 5 series fighter.

Alpha has me going both ways. Alpha would be a great platform, but if Caddy is going to get it, its going to need soemthing to seperate it from its lower level family members. Europeans wont buy a BTS if its on the same platform as a Camaro.

 

I really don't believe that. Honestly, the market penetration and imaging of the Camaro brand is virtually negligible in Europe - as well as everywhere else, outside the US and Canada. Essentially there is no positive nor negative connotation by the general populace regarding the Camaro. Chevy, however is considered a very cheap brand in Europe. But that's how Chevy chose to position themselves there.


One thing that you also have to realize is, Europeans look at cars abit differently than we do. A 3 series or VW Golf sized car is considered a family sized car there.

 

Its not a typo... check out.. RWHP!.. supercharged gto.

 

Correct, the overall feeling of American brands are cheap and low quality, and Caddy is not void of said stereotypes.

Alpha will grow in weight, maybe we will see a 200lbs drop from Zeta with a drop in useable space.

 

First time I disagree with you...

I think that caddy should be almost separate from everything GM does. If GM wants to push Caddy to the lexus level they must treat it like they do with the corvette...

The corvette's only sibling is the XLR and both are TOP of the line vehicles cherished by many...

If caddy is getting an alpha platform for the upcoming BTS then I think that no other GM vehicle should use the platform...

The only reason bmw, lexus and mercedes is that they rarely share platforms on their vehicles. So the ride of a car is exclusive to it.

After seeing a few of the video clips around about the development of the camaro i've had sort of a change of heart towards the camaro. I think gm wants to get it right and I now have a LOT of expectations for the Z28. I know the Z28 will be no nonsense car.

So i am holding out on the z28.

Anyways.

GM should stop the batch engineering on their top tier units like caddy.

 

Don't care about the weight as long as the car is fast in a straight line and in the corners with little body roll...which according to the disciples it is.

That being said, still going to wait for the top level Camaro or drop a turbo LS motor into my 4th gen.

 

I don't just look at the weight. I look at the overall package. I would have to test drive both to see which drives better, performs better, has better build quality, has the most comfort, fuel economy, and looks the best.