To all those at GM who are working on this car, and mainly the ACCOUNTANTS who will try to kill it by cutting costs in the wrong places .

Here's my take on the goals that need to be set and achieved for this car to please your potential customers and even be close to the Mustang in terms of sales.

Styling:

Look at the success of the Mustang and particularly the Dodge Charger/Chrysler 300's. Stylish cars sell. All you need is the correct selection of hardware to wrap in a stylish exterior.

Running gear:

DC figured it out with the decently powered base V-6 models, mid range Hemi v-8's and the ultimate SRT-8 vehicles. Ford also uses the same formula, decent base v-6, Mustang GT v-8, and SVT or now Shelby 500GT.
There needs to be the standard v-6 car then the standard v-8 car, then the upper range v-8 car. This upper v-8 car not only has to have upgraded body styling mods, but also an exclusive power plant. Give this car something good like the upcoming 6.2L or the LS7. The mid-range v-8 should be on par with the LS2 because in 3 years 400hp is going to probably just barely be above the norm. Your top v-8 option is going to need the punch of 500hp like the LS7, look at the 475-500hp predicted for the Shelby 500GT, and the damn SRT-8 6.1L Hemi's are already putting out more than 425hp, more like 460+.

Next, the key to selling to the normal people who don't really care about performance, but want a performance car.

Look at all the differences in the Mustang and the past F-bodies.
This new Camaro needs a usable trunk, not a hatch.
Short people like woman need to be able to see out of the car, so no laid back seating position like the discontinued F-bodies.
It will need to be easy to get in and out of like the mustang.
The interior needs to look well put together, and feature soft materials like VW/Audi use. This rubberized interior treatment with beefy control *****, cruise control stalks, turn signal stalks etc gives a feel of refinement. DO NOT SKIMP ON THE INTERIOR PLASTICS AND TRIMS. You will be looked down upon as using cheap GM interiors once again. Essentially you’ll need interior trim quality to be above what’s currently in the Cadillac STS-V by 2009 to give you a reference point.
The base V-6 needs to have a very low price tag with competitive standard options. Basically the base model has to be a nice car that just isn't as fast or well handling as the V-8 cars. The base car is where all the volume is at, and there needs to be a lot of customization packages like the Mustang to suit those picky V-6 folks. The base V-6 needs a nice comfortable ride.

The three parts of the equation, 1) greatly styled base car, with nice interior, ergos and cheap price, 2) mid-range v-8 ~400hp with 6-speed manual or automatic, 3) top dog v-8 model so that people in v-6 cars feel like their "car" is also top dog. This car has to have the grunt, 500hp, 6-speed manual or auto, and strong independent rear or solid axle.
Just due to costs it's probably not feasible to have an IRS on all of the cars, the base car has to be affordable. So make a normal solid rear axle for the v-6 cars, and make a STRONG rear end for the V-8 cars. Don't plague us again with a rear end built for a 1980's V-6 GMC Jimmy pick-up truck. Incorporate something from the trucks, hell you sell hundreds of thousands of those rear ends a year in the full-size trucks; don't use something from the Colorado.

Aftermarket

Leave room for us to mod these cars with aftermarket parts. Leave the engine under the hood, not up under the windshield and cowl so we can install a roots or screw-type supercharger. Leave room so we can have a normal filter on a stick intake setup like the GTO and mustang. Leave room for headers, and whatever you do make the V-8 cars real true duals all the way back over the axle. The V-8 engines have to be LSx based or you will lose a ton of aftermarket support. GM’s power train engineers have helped you out greatly producing the best small block platform to mod, and the aftermarket has really taken off on the engine as seen at PRI this year.

I’d like to see a Pontiac Firebird, but the GTO can take over for the firebird. Dodge and Chrysler are out selling tons of these new rwd cars that have no heritage or following. The Camaro has both.

Make It Happen.

 

Chevy has a Corvette. Should we ignore it because ford doesnt have one? Want to compete with a GT500, but a vette and kill it easy. Dont get me wrong, Id love to see a 800hp camaro like everyone is up in arms for around here, but would you rather have:

Option 1 - GM - Performance starts at the base Camaro, V6, low 20k, moves up to mid high 20's with a 5.3L, then a ***** out performer with 400 out of a 6.0/6.2L ranging from 30-38k, Next, if your performance goals havent been met is the base Corvette just above 40k, same powertrain as the highest end Camaro, but lighter, more performace minded in all catagories, then Z06.

Option 2 - Ford - Mustang has to try to carry affordable performance on it back solo. IOW, no matter how much money you throw at it, its still a mustang, now with a huge motor, huge pricetag, and still the huge heavy body, upright stance ect...they dont have another car to pick up the Mustangs shortcomings, as we do the Corvette. Its a HUGE step to that GT. Ford NEEDS a Gt500 like car because it doesnt have Corvette covered, and still wont.

Also I SERIOUSLY doubt 400hp will "be the norm" in 3 years. Mustang will have a ~325hp model, and it will sell a ton.

I remember a quote from Guy some time back reguarding enthusiasts killing the Camaro....When I read this board now, I get the feeling that there will be serious mutiny if the new Camaro isnt the fastest production car on the planet....listen to yourselves. If you want to spend 60k on a Camaro, cool, buy a V6 and slap an LS7 GMPP motor in it. Ive got my money on a version that uses the same motor as a base Vette (LS2, maybe a 6.2L by then?) but rated right under it....425 and 400 maybe? Im VERY happy with 400hp for under 35k.

Just dont get your hopes up people, be realistic please, or launch time will have you all being upset with a fantastic car because it doesnt have 550hp.

 

Your right, Ford and DC are wrong.

You don't need Halo cars like the Shelby 500GT or the SRT-8 vehicles, I mean look how poorly the Mustang and Charger/300 are selling. There's no need for a very high performance halo vehicle in the lineup

You should probably work for GM so you can help run them completely thru the ground all the way to china/japan.

 

this car's success is critical. I dont think an LS7 cobra killer could hurt anything. We keep hearing this corvette arguement time and time again here, and I personally am tired of it because corvette seems to be the standard camaro cannot exceed. People are so afraid of camaro intruding on corvette's territory, but why? The corvette is competing with AND defeating vipers right now, I think we can let the camaro handle the cobra. That along with the fact that the Z06 is the best bang for the buck supercar of the time - i dont think vettes sales are suffering right now. we should not have limits on a car that's success is ever so crucial!!! every downfall it has will be eaten up by the competition.

my thoughts exactly.

GM doesnt lose horsepower wars - and it shouldnt cheat by cross classing (vette vs mustang cobra) to do it.

 

Whoa! Easy.

Mustang sells extremly well WITHOUT a halo car at the moment, You proved my point for me. Sure, we have all seen the GT500 online and in mags, but they have accounted for how many of mustangs record sales?

Charger and 300 were selling in MASSIVE numbers long before the SRT8 models were even announced.

I didnt say Camaro didnt need a halo, I said it didnt need to be the fastest thing in the country to sell very well....and you helped me to prove that point. Thanks.

 

and thats because they have excellent base platforms to start with, which was 80% of the points he addressed in his original post.

everyone is taking what each other is saying to the extreme. a low-production cobra killer would be a good marketing maneuver, argue it all you want. Developement of brand loyalty in customers is a target that GM is completely missing right now. while that doesnt show in initial sales like everyone is all worried about, it does show in future sales.

 

Also the point I am trying to make isnt that Camaro shouldnt or cant exceed Corvette, its that...if you want that much performance, then why would choose to have it in a heavier, larger, car like the Camaro instead of the class leading car that WE have in Corvette.

We have a bunch of weirdos running around hear saying the Camaro must have this much power and weigh in under this.....Chevy makes that car, for you!!! and it beats up on everything, and it is done at a FANTASTIC price point.

So what I guess I am missing is...you all would rather, for the same money, have a Camaro, that doesnt handle as well, accelerate at the same pace, and weighs a significant amount more than a Corvette, than have the corvette?

Thats what I am hearing.....that you WOULDNT own a Corvette that has all the performance of the Camaro you want, because its a Corvette...even if the Corvette would be cheaper than a ***** out Camaro?

If thats the case, I have no argument.

 

Agreed on both points. A very limited production Camaro that could tangle with the GT500 would be good on many levels, but it would seem that most on here say "Thats the model Im getting." Chevy isnt going to make an affordable car that can take down the GT500. Thats what Im getting at.

 

[QUOTE=JoeliusZ28]and thats because they have excellent base platforms to start with, which was 80% of the points he addressed in his original post. [QUOTE]

The base is the key, but to keep sales going you have to have the halo car. After the initial v-6 and v-8 cars rolled out the halo cars were introduced or made available. Those halo cars are what many owners attribute their base car with in terms of the image of the car.
Ford has built the mustang's reputation on the base v-6/normal v-8/upper v-8 formula. DC copied it with the charger and 300C, and they are both doing very well. Why even risk it with the Camaro?

GM proved that putting the same 400hp LS2 in the GTO and the C6 made no real waves in the minds of the buying public. The Corvette is a 2 seater sports car, something the GTO and Camaro are not. There can be overlap in hp with the Camaro and Vette, GM just needs to realize, everyone else arlready does.

 

last time i checked corvette has two seats. if you think there isnt a market for performance with more than two seats, you might want to research why the cobra, the GTO, or better yet the four door SRT8 exists. Two door supercars arent practical to some people no matter how affordable chevy has been so gracious to make them.

 

thats fine by me, i just want to see a camaro that could end up being collectible someday. my z28 is one of 200,000 others, and there is nothing other of the same year thats more collectible at first glance (and when i say that im referring to 1LEs)

 

I have only 3 words: Mind the details.

Fit and finish, materials, the way things "feel". Most of this stuff doesn't add cost to the car, and it really makes a difference to those who aren't in it for the performance thing (aka, the "V6 buyers" and the wives of many potential buyers).

 

With the way GM has been taking interior quality these days, I do not think they will mess up in that department. Every new car seems to trump the car that came out previously.
What is important is that it handles well, its powerful, its fun to drive, looks great, and is priced right.
Having an 505 hp Camaro...I dunno who would buy one? Would you spend upwards of 45k for one? With the 6.2 coming up, I expect this engine to pack something in the mid 400's.

And on another note...the 6.1 is "underrated"?? Uh...dont think so. The numbers they are making are spot on with there performance.

 

The new interior will still have to exceed that trend, we're talking about a car that won't be out until 2009, not the end of this month.

The 6.1L Hemi is rated at 425hp, there are SRT-8's running 12.5's at 108+mph in a 4200lb curb weight Automatic car. That's not 425hp or 25hp more than a 4000lbs GTO that's not even close the 12's.

 

Well heck, that's what a muscle car is all about...lots 'o power...in a 2+2 form. I've had both: Three Camaros and now a Corvette. If Chevy would have had a Camaro to offer at the time of purchase, I would have gone with the Camaro.

As it is now, I can fit one passenger in the Vette. Don't get me wrong, I love my Vette, but honestly, it wasn't my first choice...and as a new family guy, a 2+2 makes more sense. Fun, sporty, sexy, fast and able to carry passengers.

The way I see it, a car is more than the horsepower rating of the engine...its the whole package. The GTO certainly isn't stealing any of the Vette's thunder. Its a completely different market...they share the engine only. I see the Camaro as doing the same thing. Furthermore, if they price it right, a power enthusiast might be able to get into a new LS2 powered vehicle, without having to spend the $$ on a Vette.