Bert02SS

My '85 Trans Am had functional hood air extractors. My '96 Z-28 had fake ones. Just an observation. Here's another one. I dropped by the Ford dealership in Mission Valley yesterday, saw a Mustang special edition model of some sort with a huge fake sheet metal hood scoop and brake cooling scoops, all of which were fake, tacky add-ons. Yuk.

Robert_Nashville

Man…somebody obviously had their “grumpy” juice; either that or you apparently either have a selective memory or simply weren’t there…

My ’76 and ’79 TransAm had working air extractors on the front fenders and the spoilers/air dam, etc all did function (how much if any difference they made at speed is debatable); likewise, the shaker hood scoop, although not functional from the factory after 1972 took all of 45 seconds to make functional (and let me tell you, that intake sound was music to the ears).

The Z/28s of the later 70's/early 80s model years had fake air extractors and a non-functional hood scoop (that really couldn’t be made functional in any way that would actually get air to the carburetor).

I understand if you are “Z/28 guy”; that’s fine, but be careful about knocking a vehicle you apparently don’t know everything about and that is near and dear to the hearts of many people here!

I liked the "clean design" of the fourth gen Z/28 better than the TransAm too but I wouldn't push the idea of the "stuff" that these two vehicles have had over the years.

camfanatic

I knew Camaro would be back. I heared Taps playing for the Firebird in '02. Oh well, such is life!

big_sam510

Please, please, I repeat, PLEASE stop bringin up the crap about the solstice and sky. After reading all 13 pages of this, It sickened me every time I read about it. Lets examine their market please.

Who do think of when you hear roadster?
Hmmmm... lets see, Miata (reigning champ) S2000 (which is pretty much irrelevant because of its sticker and nobody buys the damn thing), quite possibly the 350z convertible (which I mention again, sticker price, and its purpose wasnt really to dominate the roadster market in my opinion), and the XLR (this should be self explanitory). Everything I didnt mention is pretty much irrelevant in the market. So for a roadster under 22k, you have a choice of a........ miata...... or a...... miata! One car in the market really so GM puts out the solstice, which kicks the miata in the ***, then releases the sky, which does the same. Like someone said before, a good number of people dont even know Saturn s a part of GM, so a good number of people are looking at it as 3 different cars, not just GM vs Miata. Also, the solstice was a hit, there would be no reason not to bring another to the market where the pickings were slim to begin with before GM entered anyway. Why not introduce variety in a market controlled by two cars. Thats end of discussion for the roadsters. Now talking pony cars and coupes in general, this cant be so with a camaro and bird.

No Im a camaro guy, but dont get me wrong, with the exception of the 35th anniversary SS, I loved the look of the WS6 trans am's way more than my beloved SS 4th Gens. Would I like to see the bord name live on, yes. Do I think it will, maybe, but not in 08. The roadsters previously mentioned cant really be cross shopped. If you're looking for a 2 seat convertible for under 22k, those are your only choices. The camaro itself has alot to battle with upon release. It needs as much funding and marketing as possible to survive at this point. Not only will it be hitting dealers the same time as the challenger, but also the freshly redesigned stang. Theres really no telling how much of a hit those are gonna be. Not to mention the fact that most people dont really care what wheels the car is driving is driving on. That opens the door to the imports making comparible power at comparible prices (350Z, G35, Eclipse GT to name a few, and whose place in the market is ALOT larger than it was from the 60's to the 90's) so the camaro has alot to compete with out the gate. What sense does it make to enter a tough market wit not one, but 2 vehicles whose destinys are uncertain? And on one car's budget? None at at all to me. Wait a minute, let the camaro gain its share of the market first, let it make money. I mean are you guys forgetting the fact that the camaro has history too! Theres a reason they revived the camaro and not the bird, its more popular among the world than a trans am. Now i see a valid argument if the camaro has been kicking *** in sales and there was room in the market for another car, or it needed another car and GM said no, but until then Im backing GM's decision to keep the bird dead. At least until we see what the camaro does. And for those of you who are going to totally disown GM because they wont take a camaro, change the bumper, spoiler, and stamp it a pontiac, I have no words for you.

I rest my case!
(begin your complaining now)


Side notes: Dont believe me about the popularity thing, ask 100 people you dont know to name 2 muscle cars, i can guaruntee you the 2 most popular names are gonna be camaro and mustang. You may hear trans am, chevelle, monte carlo, cougar, charger, etc... here and there, but those are the main two.

Also, remember theres the whole thing about voiding that contract for not using the name firebird (and camaro, but I have seen no actual proof of this though)

Robert_Nashville

I disagree...I think the response you would get would depend a GREAT deal on the age of the person you are asking.

If they were between 10 and 30 years old anytime during the early 70's up through the early 80's then I would say "TransAm" would be mentioned at least as often if not more than the Z/28...the TransAm was THE car to have during that period for many, many, people.

I'd grant that "Camaro", by itself is much more widely known than either Firebird or TransAm but if you are talking about a specific model of Camaro or Firebird then I susect the TransAm would easily hold its own; at least for anybody old enough to remember the second generation well.

Just my opinion of course, I certainly don't have any data to back thay up.

HAZ-Matt

There are so many pages to this thread that I forgot what the original question was

Good Ph.D

^ Thats why.

If it cost GM $8 to make a Camaro and they sell ten they made $20. If we add an indentical Firebird now both cars cost $9 to build.

As history proves Firebird never came close to doubling sales, now you're selling 13 cars, but you're only making $1 on which of $13. Unless you're gonna charge $12 for a Firebird with the same content as a $10 Camaro you're loosing money.

Yes, that does work with SUVs, Tahoe/Escalade... but the SUV market is about five times the size of the coupe market, so multiple products make sense. Additionally there is a lot more room between Chevrolet and Cadillac, then there is between Chevy and Pontiac.

For the deluded, high volume cars, which includes Firebird and not Solstice/Sky, NEED to make a profit. So no, GM isn't going to make one just because you feel they owe it to you.

The only way Firebird makes sense is if its different then Camaro in more that just skin. Even that is a problem because the more you're still breaking the "sister car" image of the people in this thread whose memory only goes back to 1982.

big_sam510

I meant just "camaro" or "firebird", not specific models

EllwynX

One thing I've always wondered about...

Why do many people seem to think of 'Firebird' and 'Trans Am' as different vehicles? I've noticed this over the years. A Trans Am is just a supped up Firebird. In fact it's technically a Firebird Trans Am. Just a trim level.

That's like saying a Z28 is somehow a different vehicle than a Camaro.

Robert_Nashville

I think because the differences between a basic Firebird and a TransAm (or a basic Camaro and a Z/28) are significant; it's more than just a "supped up" version. Granted, the basic vehicles are the same but the difference in performance levels are more than just a matter of "trim".

FS3800

agreed... a Trans Am is a Firebird. Period....

i think it's hilarious when Trans Am owners deny that they own a Firebird.. oh no.. it's not a Firebird it's a Trans Am...

same deal dude.. so you have a taller wing, different front fascia and whatever.. whoop de do.. so does the Cobalt SS vs Cobalt LT

Robert_Nashville

and different brakes and different suspension pieces and two more cylinders; if you think the only difference are plastic pieces then you need to do some homework.

FS3800

i know there are more than the differences i listed, and no, i don't think it's just plastic pieces...

i wasn't about to go and list everyone.. it doesn't change my point.. the car is still a firebird.. Trans Am is only a trim level

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind here.. just making my opinion on the matter clear

though the people that claim "it's a Trans Am, not a Firebird" remind me of the crowd that says "It's an SRT-4, not a Neon"

Robert_Nashville

I don't disagree with your point; I just don't see the need for your point.

Of course a TransAM is a Firebird. However, I disagree with you calling it a trim level...in the automotive industry; a siginficantly different suspension, engine and drivetrain is more than a "trim level".

Z/28 and TranaAm are significantly different enough from their base vehicles and significantly well known enough in their own right that their identity goes beyond the need to say "Firebird TransAm" or "Camaro Z/28".

Every TransAm may be a Firebird but not every Firebird is a TransAm...a TransAm is firebreathing, pavement ripping, monster compared to a base Firebird and those who own one rightly don't want the uninformed to mistake the two.

sbackof

Dont know if this was ever said But They are retroing the car and why make 2 cars that looked almost identical from 69 just to call one Camaro and one Firebird. it makes no sense. I have also seen a retro of the new GTO based on the 70 or 71 and it looks sweet. Anyway its business. Lets see how the Camaro does.