LandonElf

A 13 second car (with only factory parts) that still gets 30+mpg for $20k.

Good Ph.D

Uh huh? Im assuming thats the Supercharged version you're talking about...

Id guess those are somewhere around 10% of total Cobalt sales... The rest are more than likely getting groceries.

LandonElf

Erm....yea, i have sig for a reason

But come on now, lets not take pot shots at other cars. Lets take into consideration that not everyone has a base model 145hp cobalt just like not everyone has a V6 camaro.

Maybe i'm just over-protective of my precious---er i mean cobalt, but over-generalizing can be offensive to some people.

Thats kind of like saying all F150's are redneck trucks (what about lightning) and all neons are girl cars (what about srt-4).

Good Ph.D

Its not a pot shot, regardless of what hotted up version may be available you're driving the replacement to the cavalier that has the bones of an Ion.

Me not calling your car what it is wont absolve your issues with driving it.

LandonElf

Agh! Okay now i'm going to go huddle up in the fetal position in the corner of my cubicle here at work and cry .......while caressing a picture of my cobalt saying "your not a cavalier, your not a cavalier"

EllwynX

I don't consider that an insult myself. My 1995 Cavalier was the best car I've ever owned. Never had a SINGLE problem. It's the ONLY car I ever kept long enough to pay off.

I'd be more interested in the 'Cobalt' if it still retained the moniker 'Cavalier' to be honest.

To be TOTALLY honest. I think the top sporty model Cavalier (in it's last model year) was better looking than the Cobalt SS... :::ducks for cover::: God, how I'd like to tear off that ridiculous wing on the SSSC...


Not taking shots at anyones car (I mean, how can I when I drive an Aveo?) just being honest.

LandonElf

I honestly don't think you can compare the cobalt to the cavalier. I hate to be a critic supporter, but the cavalier got dismal reviews and was at the bottom of its class while the cobalt is flirting with dethroning the civic. The only thing that was praised was the competency of the ecotec engine....

I'm not saying your cavalier was an inferior car, but like the neons, they just did not have a reputation for being quality products. The Z-24 was also rated at horsepower numbers similar to the base model cobalt.

GM made sure that the cavaliers replacement was superior in just about everyway. I mean it even has leather, titanium, XM satellite, and recaro's for crying out loud.

But to each his own i guess. Yet i still don't understand how you can say it looks better than an SS/SC....

EllwynX

Well, I'm just saying from a visual perspective I found the Cavalier Z24 in it's final year to be a 'sharper' looking vehicle than the Cobalt SS.

I have no doubt that mechanically the Cobalt is superior. I just think they should have retained the Cavalier name. I haven't found anyone yet that had a Cavalier in the past that didn't love it and praise how reliable it was. You can replace a model with a new incarnation that is better in every way... It doesn't need a new name.

LOL Sorry, I just do. The Cavalier's sharp lines in the headlights appealed to me more than the 'eyes wide open' look of the Cobalt. I find the Cobalt SS more attractive than the SSSC. The Shopping Cart Wing is just too much of a turn off. If the spoiler sticks up far enough that I can walk up to the car and hold it like a shopping cart handle it's too high. Between a subtle flush or 5" high spoiler is ideal.

Good Ph.D

Cavalier is one of the many cars that domestics have completely mismanaged.

When it first came out like the Cobalt it was very competitive, they didnt put any money into it, because that segment doesen't make any money, so it began to look dismal compared to its rivals. Then a half assed effort was made to revive it once it was beyond repair, which is when it actually started looking decent again. Then they killed it and Ta-Dah! Cobalt.

Happened with Cavalier, Neon, is happening with Focus, etc, etc.

RussStang

I have to wonder if the Cobalt will walk down that avenue as well, or if GM has their sh*t together with this car.

f.n.a.

I bought my first Trans Am brand new in 1999, and I currently own a Corvette Z06. I like the Camaro, but I've never been a Camaro guy. Except for a 1st gen, there isn't really a Camaro that I would like to own. The 5th gen Camaro is DEFINITELY a step in the right direction, but I feel that GM has forgotten us loyal firebird fans. I know you talk about overlap sales and such, but the Saturn Sky and the Pontiac Solstice do just that. The "overlap theory" also assumes that all Firebird fans will buy a Camaro if there is no Firebird, which isn't the case. I find it upsetting that GM big-wigs are on here trying to justify this decision with a bunch of half-truth excuses. I know I'm in that minority of "diehard" Firebird fans, and there's not very much I can do about it, however I intend to use my dollars to show GM that I don't agree with their decision to leave to Firebird dead. Instead of a 5th gen. Camaro, I'll get the Challenger, When I get rid of the Z06, I'll opt for a Viper, not a replacement Corvette. Instead of the Escalade I was going to get, I'll go for the BMW X5. What else can I do?

Good Ph.D

Something thats not stupid perhaps?

Unless you're gonna dedicate yourself to squeezing that synaptic misfire onto those comment cars you get at the auto show and dealership no one at GM is going to know or care why you aren't buying their products.

Of course there is overlap in the lineup but to fix it they have to start somewhere. The Saturn and Solstice analogy is faulty anyway, they by definition arent going to sell in huge numbers, arent going to consume a lot of resources and arent going to make any money no matter what.

Camaro is a volume car and needs to make money, even if we humor you and assume that adding a Firebird would increase total sales. Simple mathematics or "half truths" as you call it still dictates GM will make less money on each vehicle AND have two exponentially weaker products.

Sunsceamer

At one time overlap was GM (Harley Earl) trademark, make them all the same but different. I think the T/A styled drawing of the 5th gen look better than the camaro but GM has done there research and found what is best for them. I think the retro 60's car thing is cool I like the mustang and the challanger will be bad ***. But I look at a 69 camaro and I allways think was that the corvair? I mean to me it looks like a 68 camaro and a corvair mixed. I had a 97 camaro but When the 93 came out and I had my learners permit I saw one and told my dad I will have one and he told me that looks like a full size geo storm. So take it for what you will. My choice in toys has changed so I am sending my GF to school and in 2 years will be looking for a new car and we will see how this flips the bill when they hit the show room.

f.n.a.

I understand that it's all about the bottom line, but let me say as a loyal GM customer, from someone who has spent nearly $100k with this company in the past 10 years, I feel betrayed by this decision. I know it's not going to make much of a difference in the end if I choose to take my business elsewhere, but I'd rather support a company that will stand behind it's loyal fans, not leave us hanging with a cop-out about the cost.

Maybe if GM didn't have to pay Fiat $1.55 billion "to realign their industrial relationships and otherwise settle some differences" we would have our car. Thanks GM accountants.

I don't want to sound negative towards the Camaro, it's a HUGE step in the right direction. I'm just a little put off by this decision to leave the Firebird dead, especially after seeing some of the reasoning (read: excuses) behind it.

grossesexy

They aren't excuses. If you wanna be pissed off go ahead, but if you don't support GM financially you eliminate the chance of another firebird. Just remember that.