Its not the 1960's......people just aren't into cars like they used to be.

Yeah , I know we are......but we are a small group, Its just not the same.


Glad you have faith in GM......we will see what happens in 2 years, if the world doesn't blow up or something by then

 

So youre saying youre an optimist?!?!

 

I would have to agree with his thinking. The 60's are long gone. The main reason the Camaro failed was because it was too expensive. You could and still can get a Mustang with comparable performance for a lot less. The Camaros in the early to mid 80's were a joke. I had a few of them and was really disappointed with them. The interor was a joke. Then came the LT1. Again, with the "Optispark," it was a poor quality vehicle that they struggled with. They have been slowly getting worse since there inception in the late 60's. As for paying over sticker for the first year, when the 93's came out, GM wouldn't let their employees use their employee discount. They had to pay the same as anyone else and I know that pissed a lot of people off. (I grew up in Detroit and have seen this first hand.) I want a new Camaro but am very skeptical that it will be all that they are saying it is to be. I just don't see 100,000 selling in the first year. If they do, it will be the base V-6 that will be the majority of the sales. Sorry to be such a pessimist. I am really hoping they learned from the 4th gen failure.

 

You couldn't be more wrong. Today's cars provide far greater performance than their 1960's counterparts could ever dream of. People are into cars more than ever before. Furthermore, women have become a huge part of the formula. Look at all the tv programs devoted to performance cars and modifying, tuning and improving them. Look at the numerous car shows, racing events and other gatherings for car enthusiasts. Of course the internet has played a major role in this.

To say "people just aren't into cars like they used to be" simply isn't true.

 

A 12 sec. factory stock car that got 20 mpg for about 20 large? To expensive? That's what you got with the LS1 z/28. Sorry don't buy that arguement.

 

You missed the main point - You could and still can get a Mustang with comparable performance for a lot less. Try again.

 

I have just officially posted on a silly thread that isn't in the lounge section.

 

A brand new stock Mustang compared to a brand new stock Camaro at the time?

 

You say tomatoes and I say NOPE.....performance and everything else aside......

Things just aren't like they used to be....WTF can you do with 500 h.p. on the street anyways? NOTHING...get tickets. What are you going to race it on the weekends.....drive it everyday.....I just don't see it.

To each his own. But look at it from all views......whats more poular in your town...muscle cars or imports ricers? What young kid can afford a new camaro? So only older more mature guys will buy it? Not me...too much money....I'm too old and got too much to lose with 500h.p. on the street.....

If I want a race car, then I willl have a race car...with no comprimise.

Lastly, I would like to state that my points have no merit and I just like busting your ***** b/c it gets your panties in a ruffle. No harm to you my friend....I'm just toying with you. You 5th gen lovers make it so easy.LOL Good day my friend...Take care

 

White Zin and blogging don't go together well

 

I feel the same way only not...

"I can get from one end of your property to the other in under 10 seconds!"

"Man thats impressive! Put it on the trailer, lets go cruising..."

 

Per se.

That's what happened to me. Why wait? I got my C6 and love it. You get an 08 C6, I guarantee you will never look back.

Chevy dealers will do their absolute damnedest to overcharge on the new Camaro, and will ruin the initial sales rush. After that, who knows?

Yes, my '02 SS (genuine, not a clone) is for sale.

 

Who is "They".

Just so you know:

The use of "They said..." =

In the 1990s, being a member of the Camaro program was essentially a dead end job.

Mike, the lackluster sales of the 4th gen had very little to do with promoting or advertizing it. It had to do with the car itself. Those who have been around here since I started will realize this is a totally opposite view than I had 6 years ago.

I'm on my third 4th gen, so I think that I can evoke as cover: "Only Nixon could go to China" in saying that the 4th gen Camaro, and the entire direction the car went was a disaster. I could go into details about why I feel that way, but I've done it numerous times. It wasn't the lack of advertizing, it was the car itself.



Re: Thunderbird.......Kinda.

Actually, MN12 Thunderbirds were expensive to make since Ford tried very hard to keep prices down near Monte Carlo territory and the car was basically over-engineered. Besides self destructing light and ignition switches, Ford's standard AC systems that last no more than 6-7 years, the thinest, cheapest, easiest deteriorating leather seats on the plenet, and the infamous mid 90s era 3.8 liter V6 gaskets, unless someone made it their personal mission to attempt to destroy an MN12 Thunderbird, you will still find that virturally all T-Birds (even the 18 year old 1989s) are still solid, many with original parts that's never needed replacement and if they did, it was done within the past few years.

Regular T-birds weren't priced much more than a modestly optioned MC, and the final years, Thunderbird actually outsold the Monte.

 

I'm going to assume you're pretty young, and weren't around when 4th gens were being sold new. I'm also going to assume that your computer has no access to Yahoo or Google. The reason I'm assuming both is because Mustangs and comparable Camaros were withing a few hundred dollars of each other. You could even get a new base model, 160+mph 2002 Z28 Camaro hardtop for under $20,000, but it was outsold handily by well optioned Z28s and Camaro SS models. I'm also going to assume that you don't know that Pontiac sold barely 1000 cheap LS1 Formula Firebirds, yet sold 13,000+ more expensive Trans Ams and WS6s.

Again, I'm assuming you are very young. Buying any 10+ year old car from the 1980s was a joke.

Optispark was created to take the stress of having a distributor off the camshaft. The idea was extremely sound in eliminating any chance of fatigue or failue over very long periods of time and very heavy usage. The gear driven waterpump eliminated the bearing tension created by the fanbelt pulling the pump shaft to one side, again increasing life (though the pump was made cheaply, and typically lasts only 100K miles). The problem that you are probally refering to (water leakage destroying the optispark sensor) was fixed with the 1996 LT1s.

There were 39,000 Camaros sold duing a very short 1993 production year. The following year there was nearly 120,000 sold. Employee discounts had squat to do with anything. It was a high demand 1st year car. The same thing happens with every automaker. Chrysler has already made it clear that there will be no employee discounts on the Challenger till sales settle down. You can bet there won't be discounts on 5th gen Camaros as well.

OK, I'll bite.

What EXACTLY do you see as the 4th gen's failure?

It has to actually be on the market to fail.


Just for 6 months. Then watch out.

I used to have the same attitude, but then I realized that it wasn't GM that made the 4th gen fail. It was GM rabidly pursuing the enthusiast at the expense of the regular buyer that made the car fail.

There was and still is a very vocal "Take No Prisoners" group with not even an inkling of comprehension of the fact that enthusiasts alone don't make up enough people to keep a car in production. Even a Camaro. This is a gang whose every response to every problem is "Add more power". The public isn't intrested in more power. They notice that the "crap-o-matic® power window motor" measures it's lifespan in minutes-of-use. The fuel guage is about as accurate as an Iraq invasion justification. They notice the doors take up a 3rd of the length of the car, and seemingly weigh 1/3 of the car. These are the guys who attempt to be insulting by calling Mustang a "girls car", while convienently ignoring that more men buy Mustang V6s than bought all V8 Camaros. That's Z28 & SS combined.

I'm not getting you.

GM already has the Cobalt. A 4 passenger, FWD coupe.

Again, Camaro isn't a god up on a pedastal (if anyone thinks it is, get help. Now.). It's a nameplate. A historical one, but still a nameplate. Nameplates can be retired when of no more use.

Again, if Camaro fails (for a 2nd time), it's toast. Game over. It's Gone. Not coming back.

I don't see what part of this is so difficult to understand.


I have to disagree. People ARE into cars as much as they ever were. Just because the cars they are into are FWD is irrelevent. I see all the enthusiasm and tricks I remember when I was their age.... not telling how long ago.

 

I guess my point is that by the time Camaro comes out, there will be other competitors in the market (besides Ford) with offerings. These cars, coming from Toyota, Honda, Nissan and Hyundai all smell the importance of the 20-something market in cultivating future sales. In virtually every case, these cars will be smaller, RWD or AWD, and 2+2.

Cobalt? Please don't make me laugh. CU rates that thing is a dismal reliability disaster, and it's NOT a small car, it is based on the mid-sized Saturn of old and it's FWD.

And, "If* the Camaro is dead then I would bet that it won't be the only thing "toast, Game over. Gone. Not coming back." at GM. You can add a few executives 'nameplates' to that as well.

But like I said, this thread is not about Camaro. It is what should arise to take its place should the new model fail. I believe the new Camaro will be a success, but what would you replace it with? If you can't answer that, don't bother with this thread.