Pffft. Disagree - but we'll end up disagreeing no matter how much we talk about it, so that's that.

Personal preference is personal preference. My wishlist is very different, and wouldn't even include the GT500 or the Nissan.

I guess you have to like the looks of the 350Z and Elise in order to consider it 'neck snapping', but that is....you guessed it....individual preference.

I can totally relate to the fun stuff....though I obviously tend towards straight line.

Bob

 

That's why we disagree Bob.

While straight line accelleration is cool, I much more perfer how well the car handles. That's why my 67 Camaro has a small block, 5-speed, big brakes and a stiff suspension to handle the twisties.

If I were looking for straight line performance only, my list would be very different.

 

Gotta disagree with you here.

First, buyers of today's Shelbys are almost exclusively Mustang fans who have extra money and/or want a special Mustang.

Second, people who walk into a Chevrolet showroom and buy a Corvette, intended to buy a Corvette before they even got into their car to drive to the Chevy dealer.

Third, Mustang was always about taking a volume chassis and making it perform like a sports car at a far cheaper price.

Yes, Shelby stole the "King Of The Road" name from GM's planned Corvette. But John Delorean stole the GTO name from a Ferrari, and I have never heard anyone say this fact places a Pontiac GTO in direct competition with a Ferrari GTO. Chevrolet also stole from Ferrari in naming the Camaro Berlinetta of the late 70s-early 80s. Yet I doubt anyone will throw the 2 against each other without being on illegal meds.

 

I really think were splitting hairs. The part you left off of my quote was

Yeah there are Shelby and Vette loyalists and those that go specifically for those cars. But it depends on the person doing the cross shopping. Ive cross shopped an RSX and an Accord. The sales men were aggrivated when they asked what I was comparing because they werent in the same class. Guess what? I dont care they both had the power and reliability I wanted. The RSX had the hadling I was impressed with but the accord comfort, but I ended up with neither. Point is when someone has money in hand if two cars meet your requirements you can cross shop as you please.


generally they are not in the same class but I do think to a small extent they are cross shopped. Not as much as it seems Ford has banked on by having one car and no AC Cobra but they are I think. Its the reason Scott said GM wouldnt let him talk about the 1LE out performing the Vette and the reason for the horse power detunning and the reason Lutz said Generally you want the Vette with a bit more power.

Personally I think there should not be detunning. Camaro is different enough and it should not be cut short. The vette plat is much more expensive and should be where the differentiation is not in power.

 

Lots of things can be cross-shopped. For example, I seriously considered buying a 02/03 Z06 before eventually deciding on my 04 Cobra (in hindsight, probably should have gotten the Z06), and also seriously considered a sportbike before buying my Harley Wide Glide (and no, I'm not kidding). However, that doesn't make them real 'competitors', IMHO.

Bob

 

That's true. But keep in mind someone said that the Camaro and 350Z weren't cross-shopped by anyone. (I believe it was Guy.) And while that may be his opinion and may even be true for most Camaro enthusiasts, it isn't the case with at least one enthusiast... me.

Back in 1989 when I got out of college I wanted to buy a new car because I was going to be commuting about 1hr one way from my home in Redwood City to my job in Oakland (~42 miles)... and my 68 Camaro wasn't going to be a great daily driver in spite of the fact that it had been that for almost four years while I was in college. I wanted to new Camaro Z28 (may have been IROC-Z at the time, but those are semantics) but when I looked into the insurance it would have been almost $5k a year. While I could afford the car, I couldn't afford the insurance. I asked my agent when the next "break" was and she said when I reached 30 years old.

So I searched for an alternative. I almost bought a clean '69 Vette for $13k (shoulda, woulda, coulda), looked breifly at clean '88 Mazda RX7 vert on the dealer lot (battery was dead, lucky me) before settling in on a Nissan 240 SX. It met my criteria, sporty, manual tranny, adequate performance and RWD. (I even test drove one of those turbo Dodge Colts and even though it smoked the Nissan, it was too boxy for my tastes and I was not buying a FWD car. ) During that time I started getting into Nissans and in particular Zs, which I couldn't afford at the time.

Flash forward 6 years and for my 30th birthday I bought myself a loaded top dog Camaro, a 95 Z/28. The 240SX had been a great little car, but it wasn't a Camaro and I saw a desire to get back into an f-body.

Now after adding two other Camaros to my collection, and several daily drivers, I want something "fresh". Although I love the dependability of my 95 Z/28, and the neck breaking looks and performance of my 67 Camaro modern-day Trans Am tribute beast, I don't drive either enough to justify keeping them both. (And that doesn't begin to include my other 67 Camaro sitting in the garage and undriven for ages.) So I'm looking for a best of both words car if you will. The new Camaro will fill that mold of old-meets-new.

However, if the Camaro were not going to return, I'd still look for something else. Heck I've also always wanted a 911 or an old E-type, but I can't afford either of those. And while I certainly wouldn't say that they're cross-shopped with Camaro, they will always remain on my list.

 

A lot of people who wouldn't buy a Camaro before, won't buy one now unless they're presuaded by the new styling. There is a good chance that the Camaro will fall flat on its face because either a) the enthusiast community of die-hard Camaro buying fans is too small, and b) The target demographic (mid/late 20's-40's?) remembers the Camaro as the quintessential 1980's mullet and hair-band driving machine.

If it fails, which I hope it doesn't, I'm guessing it will go the way of the SSR. Highly famed by few enthusiasts, hated by others, ultimately to cease production after just a few years.

As an interim effort, depending on what happens with the Volt, they could make an electric performance version.