Good Ph.D

Wow hostility...

I see both sides here, on the one side we don't want the concept dimensions being obliterated or it becoming a RWD Monte Carlo...

Then again, pretty much anything is an improvement over 4th gen which has two feet of over hangs on both sides , If nothing else, the wheels will be pushed to the edges to avoid the airplane look 4th gen has..

Even if a few items aren't what we want, and there will assuredly be items we would all change what we will get will be arguably the best Camaro ever. I dont know if its reasonable to be upset its bigger when its going to outperform competitors twice the cost, which coincidentally, have gotten bigger as well.

If the legend of "Camaro" is so strong in some of our minds that we will reject the Camaro we crusaded for years about... Then maybe we do need to take some time off from the board...

Z284ever

EDIT: Bob Lutz comments on this matter:
http://www.automochatter.com/forum/showthread.php?t=229

Hope you don't mind JasonD.

Otherwise just delete.

jaymac332

Not so. Maybe I didnt explain myself thourghly enough in my last post. Rebaged Trailblazer? Jeez, dont exagerate or anything. Im saying that people are splitting hairs over a couple of inches. The Camaro Concept is exactly what I always wanted the Camaro to be. GM says the production version will be almost identical to the Concept. That is what Im excited about, and I dont care if its considered "big" whatever the hell that is. I just dont know how people can all of a sudden get so antsy with their money now that they find that the production version may not be exactly like the concept. We are getting to the point where we are nitpicking. We are splitting hairs...the emblem isnt the whole of the car for me. It has classic Camaro lines, has two doors, rear wheel drive, V8, long hood and short rear deck. Does that explain my point well enough for you not to throw the Trailblazer thing at me again? What Im saying is they nailed it, that they will nail the production version too regardless of an inch or two. An inch or two is not worth giving up my plans to buy the car by a long shot.

jaymac332

Well said

theroad64

I have to agree.

Doug Harden

Officially a non issue....carry on......

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=504816

Shellhead

Yeah, because 4" on a production car we haven't even seen yet was an issue to begin with? All sarcasm aside, I'm glad this got put to bed.

Bob Cosby

Geee....don't criticize the 5th Gen (in concept form or otherwise)....you'll upset the kiddies. And then someone in high places might not talk to you again.

At what point does it get too big? Or too tall? Or too heavy? Or too small?

1 inch? 4 inches? 10 inches? 10 lbs? 100 lbs? 500 lbs?

Isn't that up to each individual? If someone thinks 2 inches or 50 lbs is too much/too little, are they wrong? Is that reason enough for them to "take a break" from here?

Some of ya'll would buy a rebadged Yugo if Scott put Camaro badges on it and said it was the best thing ever.

/rant.

Bob

Doug Harden

Bob,

Not all of us have some mystical factory lightweight, 180", 4 seater in mind....and while I'd love one, it's not what the Camaro has ever been or will be in today's market.

Personally, I've met some of the Camaro design/engineering team and I truly feel like there has never been a car that so many Camaro enthusiasts and actual owners are working on it....and therefore have the same wants and desires that the rest of us do.......all the while working under the constraints of reality.

We've been told time and again that the production version will be virtually indistinguishable from the concept.....with very minor dimensional changes at best.

Sometimes I feel like Charlie and Guy are being fed old or (purposefully??) incorrect information....maybe to just keep then guessing....

Good Ph.D

Geee... I wouldn't buy a rebadged Yugo if it said "Camaro" on it, nor will I buy anything that says "Camaro" on it if it doesen't fit my own individual wants, which are obviously just as subjective as yours or anyone else's.

However, I find it a bit ridiculous that some people are/were ready to throw in the towel becasue a production car isn't going to be identical to a concept... I mean would we have been happier if they made the concept smaller and with more absurd dimensions and then made the production current concept size? I doubt it...

Additionally, these are some of the same people who ranted, and rightfully so, that enthusiast killed the f-car; people who criticized those who wanted an "engine in a box". These same people are ready to kill it all over again because what will assuredly be a world class modern car, is actually the size of... a modern car.

The same people who discussed the imposibility as well as their personal disdain for the idea of Camaro returning as a niche model, but are now trying to impose limits on it more reminiscent of a miata then any modern coupe or "pony car" which would effectively make it nothing more than a boutique model, that would be getting the axe all over again.

So yes I find that criticism a bit unreasonable...

Chris 96 WS6

I have no doubt when we learn the curb weight of the production car we'll have this whole conversation all over again. I think anybody that takes a single arbitrary measurement and judges the whole car with that one criteron is being short sighted.

Lets wait until we can take in the car as a whole before we judge it a failure or a success.

Z28Wilson

Where do people get the idea that guys like Charlie want a "Miata" sized Camaro?

The 4th Gen was a BIG car, I have one and there's no denying it. So when the rumor was that the new car would be within a couple of inches of length that just made no sense to me....

You look at the last generation Mustang....I thought it was a great size for a "Pony Car"....the new Mustang looks like a virtual whale next to the SN95, and it "only added a few inches". That is what concerned me. A "few extra inches" can dramatically change a car's look.

Z284ever

Who knows Doug, maybe one day I'll write a book on all this.

EllwynX

IMO the styling of the new Mustang is what makes it appear so much larger. Not necessarily overall size.

The 4th Gens were only marginally larger than a 3rd. But I never hear complaints about the size of the 3rd Gens.

1991 Length 192.6
2001 Length 193.5 (less than an inch)

1991 Width 72.4
2001 Width 74.1 (less than 2 inches)

1991 Height 50.4
2001 Height 51.2 (less than an inch)

It was the styling that made them appear larger then they really are.

Also, taste, accounts for opinion of course. 98-02 were, imo, the best looking Camaro's followed closely by 91-92. I got FAR more compliments on my '02 when I had it than I got negative comments. It's been almost 2 years and people STILL tell me how good looking that car was, and they can't believe I traded it in.

Note- I got the above dimensions offline, so if they are incorrect I apologize.

Good Ph.D

FWIW, I wasn't talking about Charlie specifically, which is why I specifically avoided mentioning him specifically. But we've had other threads here and on other boards I lurk on with even more unrealistic expectations.

Perhaps Z4 would have been a bit more inline with 3200 number Ive heard thrown out...