I'm Pretty $&#@&% Sure Lutz Ain't Camaro's Daddy.
01-31-2006 | 02:01 PM
#46
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Posts: 2,979
Re: I'm Pretty $&#@&% Sure Lutz Ain't Camaro's Daddy.
Originally Posted by stars1010
Pacer haven’t you been doing work for Ford lately?
Don't get me started on them.
Heck, I probably couldn't get GM to take me FOR FREE.
01-31-2006 | 02:03 PM
#47
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,979
Re: I'm Pretty $&#@&% Sure Lutz Ain't Camaro's Daddy.
Originally Posted by JasonD
Not yet...not yet...
BAM! Now start crying. 
Heheh...just having a bit of fun, maybe lacing it with some payback.
BAM! Now start crying.
Heheh...just having a bit of fun, maybe lacing it with some payback.
I NEVER EVER EVER EVER flame the webmaster.
Ever.
Besides, I need to figure out how to send you some money and get that way-cool supporting member thingy...
Maybe I could con you into doing an avatar for me - I'm thinking a flame-thrower animation scorching somebody to a cinder. Whatcha think?
Last edited by PacerX; 01-31-2006 at 02:14 PM.
01-31-2006 | 02:18 PM
#48
Admin Emeritus
Joined: Dec 1997
Posts: 11,157
From: Nashville, TN area
Re: I'm Pretty $&#@&% Sure Lutz Ain't Camaro's Daddy.
Originally Posted by PacerX
Payback?
I NEVER EVER EVER EVER flame the webmaster.
Ever.
I NEVER EVER EVER EVER flame the webmaster.
Ever.
Besides, I need to figure out how to send you some money and get that way-cool supporting member thingy...
Maybe I could con you into doing an avatar for me - I'm thinking a flame-thrower animation scorching somebody to a cinder. Whatcha think?
01-31-2006 | 02:32 PM
#49
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,979
Re: I'm Pretty $&#@&% Sure Lutz Ain't Camaro's Daddy.
Originally Posted by JasonD
Yeah, but you can't say I don't have an industrial sized bottle of Tylenol on my desk with "DAN" scribbled on it.
The guy who owns the Hayabusa board uses heroin, but I've only driven you to Tylenol???
Yer getting off light, Debler.
Originally Posted by JasonD
Originally Posted by JasonD
Heh...I am sure it is already out there...
GIMME A FLAME THROWER!!!
Intarwebnet > PacerX
01-31-2006 | 02:47 PM
#50
Admin Emeritus
Joined: Dec 1997
Posts: 11,157
From: Nashville, TN area
Re: I'm Pretty $&#@&% Sure Lutz Ain't Camaro's Daddy.
Originally Posted by PacerX
Hmmmm...
The guy who owns the Hayabusa board uses heroin, but I've only driven you to Tylenol???
Yer getting off light, Debler.
The guy who owns the Hayabusa board uses heroin, but I've only driven you to Tylenol???
Yer getting off light, Debler.
K, should I just mail ya a check or what?
Seriously...got PayPal?
I WANT A FLAME THROWER.
GIMME A FLAME THROWER!!!
GIMME A FLAME THROWER!!!
JasonD > PacerX
Gosh, I feel so
today. 
01-31-2006 | 02:51 PM
#52
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,370
From: Germany
Re: I'm Pretty $&#@&% Sure Lutz Ain't Camaro's Daddy.
Originally Posted by Big Als Z
Maybe he ment 30 month?
And those guys with the plasmas on there backs...ahahaha wow. Good call Pacer. They needed those dark sunglasses so you couldnt see the tears of humilation.
And those guys with the plasmas on there backs...ahahaha wow. Good call Pacer. They needed those dark sunglasses so you couldnt see the tears of humilation.
so... 30 years after 69=...?
i think he was saying some how 3rd and 4th gen's had less camaro spirit in them...
01-31-2006 | 02:54 PM
#53
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 859
From: AR (PA born and fled)
Re: I'm Pretty $&#@&% Sure Lutz Ain't Camaro's Daddy.
Lemme see if I can help you out there Pacer....
** a few Googling minutes later**
Personally I think the first one is all you.....
The photoshop boys can mod / cut 'em down to size for ya. That help?
** a few Googling minutes later**
Personally I think the first one is all you.....
The photoshop boys can mod / cut 'em down to size for ya. That help?
01-31-2006 | 04:18 PM
#56
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,979
Re: I'm Pretty $&#@&% Sure Lutz Ain't Camaro's Daddy.
Originally Posted by JasonD
You 'Busa guys are out of your minds to start with. Heroin isn't as many steps away.
A one-way ticket to insanity.
Originally Posted by JasonD
Yeah, like I would take a check from you.
Originally Posted by JasonD
Seriously...got PayPal?
You can make sure it clears before you bless me and grant me all-seeing powers and omnipotence and ****.
Originally Posted by JasonD
Okay, okay...you can have a flame thrower. Sheesh.
Originally Posted by JasonD
After seeing those, hell...I want a flamethrower too.
I'M NOT. SO I GET THE FLAMETHROWER.
Last edited by PacerX; 01-31-2006 at 05:01 PM.
01-31-2006 | 07:02 PM
#57
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,711
From: The Golden State
Re: I'm Pretty $&#@&% Sure Lutz Ain't Camaro's Daddy.
Originally Posted by PacerX
Ask yourself this question Guy:
IF GM had St. Therese at top output, and sold EVERY ONE OF THOSE CARS for a big profit, would St. Therese still have closed?
NO. Businesses don't close plants that make money. They close losers, and a large part of the reason St. Therese was a loser was a pair of F-cars that went NO LESS THAN TWENTY YEARS before being completely re-done.
IF GM had St. Therese at top output, and sold EVERY ONE OF THOSE CARS for a big profit, would St. Therese still have closed?
NO. Businesses don't close plants that make money. They close losers, and a large part of the reason St. Therese was a loser was a pair of F-cars that went NO LESS THAN TWENTY YEARS before being completely re-done.
Please, do not insult my intelligence by saying in a TWENTY YEAR PERIOD there was NO WAY money for a new F-car could have been found. I can rattle off TWO DECADES of losers that say otherwise.
That's as far as I dare go without upsetting the Gods.
Money for engineering and process development was out there. GM, unfortunately, decided it was worth more to the company to engineer and produce the: Solstice, Aztek and Rendezvous, Alero, Aurora, Riviera, SSR, Reatta, Dustbuster vans, Allante etc... than it was to redo Camaro, and more damningly, decided it wasn't worth it way back in the 1995 time frame to go ahead with a Camaro when it was right at the cusp of doing so.
An honest, unbiased observer seeing the unveil - knowing that the buzz from it was bigger than even Corvette's introduction - could be left with NO conclusion other than:
"Wow. GM really blew it when they let this car languish and die."
And they did.
"Wow. GM really blew it when they let this car languish and die."
And they did.
On a fixed investment, take the choice that gives you the highest return. Engineering a car is a similar investment in total dollars for engineering if you build 20,000 or 100,000. Camaro will easily bury the Solstice on a return basis. It was a mistake to go ahead on Solstice before re-doing Camaro.
2 questions:
1. Exactly what would have happened to the Wilmington plant if Solstice never saw the light of day?
2. GM had staggering amounts of over capacity. If GM was disproportionately closing plants in the US & needed to close a plant in Canada, which one would stand out like a sore thumb?
There SHOULD be recriminations. That entire decision making process should be revisited...
"Did we REALLY put all that effort into a 20,000 car per year Solstice and let a 80,000 car per year Camaro languish???"
Not in the time frame for a 2001-2003 launch they weren't. That's engineering in the 1996-1999 time frame, and the issue then was the lack of the engineering resources necessary to make a produceable product.
SSR is most assuredly NOT profitable. If you question that, ask ASC... as they swirl their way to oblivion.
I hope the powers that be realize that 5 years is the top end of a product cycle for a car like Camaro.
5 years, complete re-tool.
5 years, complete re-tool.
My Dad would never have made the comment in the first place.
***DAMMIT, this isn' the typical Aztek slam either, I OWN AN AZTEK. And while it's certainly done well for me, GM's money was much more smartly spent on a Camaro for 2001 than an Aztek.***
Now, you have $X to allocate. Camaro has a profit margin of $Y, and Aztec has one of $Y times two. Which are you going to invest in?
I'm the last person to make excuses for GM, but from a business standpoint and having an idea of what GM was trying to do, in the same position I'd probally have to make the same choice, unless I was willing to create alot of labor tension.
Notice how strongly Bob Lutz said the next Camaro wouldn't be made in Canada? There's a reason.
