That is what I'm hoping for

 

God bless him, Scott is trying to ease peoples minds...

I think someone should just come and say what model Mustang the SS will be compared to. That should quiet down the price debate for a few minutes...

 

Just going by what i read in motor tred it has a est. price range of 22000-33000 at the end of the camaro section

 

If those numbers are correct (I think both ends are about 2000-2500 low), Chevy won't be able to keep up with production on the V6 models. A 300 HP V6 getting better gas mileage than it's direct competitors, who have less HP, will sell and sell and sell... Let's be real for a moment- the Camaro demographic has always been mainly comprised of young men and all ages of women who want a sporty car without having to "up the ante" to a V8. The 60/40 split estimate I've read, V6 to V8, will probably end up more like 65/35 by year two now that a 300 HP V6 is the base engine. Bang for your buck, IMO, is definitely slanted in the V6 direction in this case. I do however agree that the smartest marketing initially would be to get the "core" enthusiasts into the V8 models they (we) are craving.

It won't take too long to flood the market with vehicles and get the dealer markups out of the way. If you want a Camaro in the first 2-3 months of production, I would expect that many dealerships will have somewhere in the range of 3-10k markups; that's life. BUT, it will be short-lived, unlike the Challenger, because it will not be a limited production run with only one model choice in the first year. Now that the Challenger is in full production, like the Camaro will START OUT, Challengers can be ordered at less than sticker in my area (500-1000 off). My .02 says around May 09 Camaros will be there also.

The biggest problem that exists right now is people who are buying Challengers and Mustangs at reasonable prices because they don't need to, or want to, wait another 4-5 months to find out the actual Camaro pricing levels. Every Challenger or Mustang sold between now and then is a potential lost sale for the Camaro just because pricing (which has to be known give or take $1000) isn't available to the public.

 

GM will be lucky to sell these at MSRP the Camaro SS
The 2009 Hemi Challenger RT will be at Invoice and so will the 2010 Mustang GT.
GM will flood the market with V8s
Since GM lost 15 Billion dollars this week,they better sell
whatever they can

 

I'm a 33 year old wife, mother, and teacher and I want a HOT car to drive that has decent gas mileage. I would have to say that the V6 would be for me. Now...what color?

 

I disagree. Pricing across the board throughout various manufacturers seems to have leveled out over the past few years. You no longer seem to be able to walk into any model dealership and automatically assume you're going to be able to pay around INVOICE for a vehicle; that was not the case 6-8 years ago where you indeed could get very close to invoice in most cases (barring top models and exotics).

You are correct though that GM should flood the market with Camaro V8's. That being said, selling more units cheaper to slow the bleeding hurts the entire marketplace as the competitors prices will lower to follow suit. I hate to play devil's advocate and say that we should pay more than you think we should (invoice) for this car, but the reality is the only way the US automotive market- including the dealerships- stays in business is to make money; they can't simply print more and raise your taxes to compensate like the government can.

Factory to dealer holdbacks, the "taboo" unseen money, goes to cover dealership overhead costs including building, heat/cool, lighting, advertising, base pay, etc. While MSRP, imo, is always viewed as a starting point for negotiation, INVOICE is actually below its bottom level. Personally, I've always set my pricing goal at invoice +$500, my upper end at invoice +$1000 and failed to get there only a couple times. That generally splits the invoice/msrp gap and both sides feel they got something. I have NEVER paid MSRP or greater for a vehicle and NEVER will.

 

Did you say you were a HOT 33 year old teacher who wants a decent gas mileage V6? j/k

 

This is the only quote you need to know the pricing. Obviously GM is going to price this car competitively with the Mustang. I suspect the Camaro will be more expensive because I think there is much more content and thus value. I have just looked at Mustang prices and added about 10% or so as an estimate. With the price of the materials of the car going up between now and production so there really is no way they would set a price well in advance. Having said that Mustang and Challanger are competition and price is a key factor in any buying decision so those cars are your basis for comparison.

The other point is that how some of you define GM is interesting. GM the corporation gets basicly invoice for every car that is sold (I know there are holdbacks etc but stay with me). The dealers are independent and they get the difference between the cost they pay and what they sell it for. If the dealers sell for over or under MSRP it may effect volume but won't effect the margin on each unit. I hope GM will flood the market with these cars. Why wouldn't they? The Camaro is a car for the average car buyer not a limited edition car. It is best for us as fan's and future owners for the supply to match demand for the car so that we all get decent deals on the cars we want. I bought a 04 GTO in Jan of 05 for 8k under MSRP once all of the incentives were added up. That is what happens when demand was high and supply short then the tables turn. Many of those who wanted GTO's got turned off by the dealers markups and waited or moved to another car. Having said that the GTO was a low volume three year model and the Camaro is a high volume long term model.

 

I was in the exact same boat as you with the GTO. I bought in Sept 04, got $3500 factory/dealer incentive, $3000 off directly from dealer, and $1500 for financing through GMAC. NO ONE made money on that transaction. 3500 was a direct hit to GM (Pontiac); the dealer didn't have 3k to move in price without going through ALL the holdback money plus, and GMAC financing me at 2.9% didn't make squat giving me $1500 up front.

Bottom line, there was little demand for that model year of the car until they started giving it away. You and I both know that the 04 GTO is (was) indeed a 30k+ car NOT 25k and that they lost their collective asses selling them to us at that discount. IMO, the GTO was marketed POORLY at the get-go and no one "in the loop" ever considered that a true (looking) dual exhaust and a simple hood scoop could make all the difference in selling the car closer to MSRP instead of below invoice. The LS2 and its 50 more HP was just a bonus in the situation.

The "extra" time taken in getting the Camaro to market the right way will make all the difference in its sales. Unlike the GTO, its target pricing should make us all say, "WOW !" instead of "Hmmm, well if I can get 5k off that price... ?" We won't see a complete 2nd year model change like the GTO had either. Unfortunately, it appears they did screw up something as simple as HUD for the first production models, but no one is perfect... As I said earlier, I would expect that somewhere in between invoice and MSRP should end up being palatable to both sides.

 

TRM002, you are right on target with your assessment that it is good that GM is taking their time. With the GTO they were in such a rush that the simple things like hoods, and exhaust that do make a difference were discounted. My guess is that if GM could offer the HUD right away they would but my guess is the supplier cannot get it done. I will be waiting till Dec 2009 for my car specifically for the HUD.

 

I visited my local Dodge dealer yesterday just to have a look at the new Challanger. The sales reps there were doing everything they could to get me to buy one of their last 3 Limited edition cars. They are asking $20k over sticker and getting anywhere from $12-$20. I told them I was there to compare the challanger to the Camaro expectations. The sales person told me they were "just told on Friday" the base camaro is going to start at $46,999. I asked him if that was on the "base" V6 or V8 and he said it was on the base. As I got more specific with my questions, he dug himself into a deeper and deeper hole. It was hilarious. He had no answer when I asked him why the chevy dealer did not have any pricing info and yet he did. As for the challanger, if you have not seen one in person, it actually does look better in person then on paper. Still, it is huge. It has a very nice and roomy interior, which, gets me even more excited to see the camaro in person. I did like the push button start, but, the exhaust sounds horrible. There is no muscle car sound coming from it. The dealer said you would have to add after market effects to get it to sound like a true muscle car. All in all, it appears to be no competition to the camaro.

 

That's funny that you say that about the exhaust. I've always felt (heard) that the LS1/2/3's were pretty weak sounding. The LT1 sounded great, but the LS series engines just have never sounded that great to me, both stock and modded. They just don't sound deep at all.

 

I have been buying Stang Gts,Tahoes and never paid over INVOICE
My 2006 Stang Gt was also Invoice while everyone else was getting Msrp or better,but that was when gas was at $2.00 a gal.
When the Camaro SS comes out pas prices will be $4 -$5 a gal or more.
I feel if one dealer does not want to deal with you,there will be another 50 dealers within 1 hours drive.But 99% of the dealers will not let you walk out without you buying something,so I feel invoice is a fair price and screw the dealers because they could care little about us.......Jt

 

You are in for a big disappointment in this scenario then IMO. There's only three ways you pay invoice for the 2010 Camaro SS:

1) you wait until MY end and buy a left-over
2) GM screws up the pricing levels like they did with the GTO introduction and has to offer similar factory to dealer incentives
3) You, a family member, or real close friend, own a Chevy dealership.

From the supposed Feb introduction until April, dealer markups will be in effect;
from April to May MSRP;
June-Sep 500-1000 off;
Oct-Feb invoice to invoice +700.

I would guess that MSRP over invoice on the SS will be less than most think- probably in the $1700 range. Just my opinion.