its basic psychology is what it is. People dont care about the economics of it at all they just want to pay less than whats on the window even if the car cost more to make than what theyre selling it for.

Im tired of people saying "well, ummm they have uh holdbacks and stuff" and then getting told what that holdback is for and how much profit really is made, then getting a reply like "uhh uhhh umm i dont care how much theyre making" when obviously they gave it thought when they hear the words holdback and other industry jargon.

 

I disagree. People, by the nature of car buying, are "set-up" for the buying experience long before they walk into a showroom, except in the Saturn "at price" example and even that is full of holes. Saturn had set out to sell at MSRP and did (does) but in most cases they'll up the value of your trade instead of discounting the MSRP. Is there really any difference?

In the example of someone wanting to buy the 20k (but should be 30k) Camaro for 16k, that's human nature and the dealerships caused it. Wanting to pay 16k is a lot different from walking out the door because you can't get to that number. Common sense kicks in, on both sides usually, and a "fair" ( I now hate that word ) deal is reached. I refuse to believe that they could rebadge a Corvette with an Aveo emblem and someone would SERIOUSLY say they would only pay the 18k (or whatever) Aveo price for it. By the same token, if the automaker marketed what should be a 30k car at 20k, shame on them, not on the buying public.

 

their overhead isnt your concern but their profit is? So youre saying you ask for a discount below MSRP because you know youre buying an inferior product. I mean thats the only reason you would pay less than what something should be valued at correct?
Is this new camaro gonna be an inferior product from the get-go?
If this car came out with an MSRP of 25K would you still hassle them for a discount? if so, why? How much is the new camaro really worth in your eyes?

 

common sense would kick in? the buyer never had any if he or she didnt see the value in the car and STILL wanted to pay less than 20K. Thats what happens at dealerships, customers dont appreciate the value, they see the numbers and think discounts are the road to happiness.

 

I will tell you here and now, sight unseen other than pictures and video, and obviously not knowing pricing levels, that I wouldn't hesitate to buy a loaded SS/RS for 32k. I could live with up to 34k regardless if that ends up being the MSRP or if I have to try to beat a couple thousand out of them to get there. Given the general quality of all the GM vehicles I've owned (with the exception of the GTO), I don't believe the car will warrant more money than that. Time will tell.

 

granted that dealers are sometimes a bit pushy.....i agree on that. i hate that im just looking, im just looking. ive got 100 that says when the new camaro is out they wont be giving out free joy rides....but they might let me take a cobalt LT around for a bit...haha

 

Where did I say their profit is my concern as the buyer? Its really not...

No thats not what I'm saying. The quality of the product is related to but distinct from the "value" an individual assigns to the product. It may be part of how they assign value but not necessarily.

Detach the idea of "value" from products altogether for a second. Say I work for a company and they pay me $50/hour. The company has made a value judgment that my time is worth at least and likely more than $50/hour. I've made a value judgement that my time is worth at least and likely less than $50/hour. Thus I come to work and get paid $50/hour, essentially selling my time for maximum value.

If suddenly another company calls me up and offers me $60/hour, then suddenly the definition of maximum value has changed. My percieved value of my time has now increased to $60/hour. In that case selliing my time for $50/hour when its worth $60/hour according to the other company, is not maximizing my value. In that case I'm probably going to quit and go work for the other company.

Going back to cars, if the value to the dealer is more than the value to you, regardless of the criteria used to determine "value" the transaction probably won't take place. The dealer can decide to depend on another customer coming with value ideas that are more in line with theirs.

In the case of the Camaro and the Mustang before it, thats probably a good bet at first and there will be support for dealer premiums for a few months. Right now in the case of full size trucks, thats not a good bet, hence one dealer in my area offering 42% off Dodge quad cabs.

In each case though, there's a tug of war between buyer and seller trying to maximize value while arriving at a price that both can live with. The end result is a "fair" price, that is by defintion, whatever price the buyer and seller can agree on.

No indeed. I don't know how I gave that impression but I don't want anybody to think that I think its going to be a POS or anything. I've wanted one with a V8 under the hood ever since I got my '94 V6 10 years ago and wanted one even worse since I got rid of the '94...

As far as worth to me I thought I already said that in my first post in this thread...

The value of the car to me is going to be at least MSRP simply because its got "Camaro" plastered on the side. GM says its worth MSRP and I can agree with that for a Camaro. In principle though I won't pay over MSRP just because I'm not going to give a "bonus" to the dealer for the privilege of selling me a car. Early adoption "fees", whether its a car, iphone or whatever are not for me.

Some people will though, in which case they and the dealer will come to an agreement on a "fair" price thats quite a bit more than my "fair" price. Where I "pay" is in time, in that I'm not the first guy on the block to have one...

Thats in contrast to both my truck and my wife's car. I paid right at invoice for both because thats what I decided the value was to me in the process of negotiation. The dealer and I were able to meet at a "fair" price point that maximized the value increase for both of us. If we couldn't get to that point either one of us could have and would have walked and the transaction wouldn't go through.

 

I am one of many that enjoy buying a Car every 2 or 3 years.
I have bought a 2006 Stang GT at INVOICE and thats all I was going to pay when 99% odfdealers wanted over MSRP when gas as a tad over $2.00 a Gal.
As for Value
I am sure many just like me that will buy a Camaro SS and buy it knowing that most will only keep it for 2 - 3 years only.
I am getting bored with the 2006 Stang Gt
I am also sure I will be bored with the 2010 Camaro SS within 2 years after I buy it.
Most like to buy cars(not Leased} every 2 years
Myself why would I want to walk into a showroom and not expect to pay Invoice on a camaro ss???
Yeaaa I have too play that Bullsh*t game with prices where the lame salesman walking back and forth to the salesmanager for 2 plus hours to make believe that they are working with me.
I feel screw the dealer and I am sure many feel the same way.
Years ago dealers got away with hiding the real price,but we have the internet and the dealers are getting screwed[Screw them I feel}
Now if the dealer don't want to deal with me with a INVOICE price on a 2010 camaro SS
with 2 or maybe 5 Camaro SS on their lot,I say screw them and I am sure that there are hundreds of GM dealers within 1 hour from where we live.
Whos to say GM will not flood the market?????
If I was GM and just lost 15 billion dollars and might be at BK7 next year
I would flood the market and see what happens............................

 

Then you my friend are one of the privileged or have a different set of priorities- neither of which is a bad thing. Very few households can afford new vehicles every 2-3 years; not the "many" as you seem to infer. The US mean income is something like 42k; no one is buying cars every 2-3 years on that. While my wife and I both work and make a comfortable 100k+ living, even we would have to cut somewhere to cycle through vehicles as you suggest. Maybe it would be as simple as only taking the family trip with the kids every other year instead of each year. A lot comes down to priorities in life. With me, my house (stable, comfortable, family home) is first, time with the family (including the yearly 1-2 wk vacation) is second, and yes, for me, the car comes no earlier than 3rd. I could easily make the car first, make it a Z06, a Viper, or a Ferrari for that matter by shuffling the deck a little. I could afford any of them but what suffers because of it? I could move into a 1200sf ranch, take vacations in the backyard and park my new Lamborghini Diablo out front and not spend a penny more than I do now. Difference being, I don't expect Lamborghini to sell me the car at cost so I can do it more comfortably.

Sorry for the rant; your statement of getting bored with cars, and simply getting another new one every two years or so, just rubbed me wrong when accompanied by the fact you think that on top of it all the dealer should bend over backwards to make next to nothing on the deal to please you.

Oh, and please show me anywhere in the US that there are hundreds of GM dealers within an hour of where you live. First off, if you're buying a Camaro, you only have the luxury of looking at how many CHEVY dealers are within an hour; the local Pontiac dealership isn't going to be able to get the "make no money" deal you're looking for- that's for sure. I have about 20 Chevy dealers within 100 mile radius of me. That's a far cry from hundreds within an hour.

Please don't take any of this as a personal attack; it isn't meant to come off like that. Just an observation that from my point of view, you expect to get something for nothing or somehow feel that because you had to put up with all the salesman BS that you should be compensated by getting the vehicle for what the dealership bought it for. I'm all for playing the game with the dealership and playing the "meet in the middle" game. That's what's fair- your line of thought is not. Just my .02

 

if your any good with money, you sound pretty stingy, why not just lease? why pay tax on the complete purchase instead of the time used/depriciation? you can probably save more money on that alone than going straight to invoice. please don't tell me your making cash purchases on these cars, and if your financing, the bank owns it anyways so leasing wouldn't change anything on that part.

 

I seems to find your post always interesting.

 

Ha Ha Ha
as I said I must have at least 100 dealers within 1 hour from me.
I live in Pa
So I have all southern Philly and all northern pa and Most of NJ and some parts of NY.
Hummm I would think there is al Least 100 dealer,well maybe 90 lol.
Reason I never leased was because before I retired at age 45,I used to drive to and from NYC and put about 200 miles on the car aday...
So if I leased a car there would be about 70,000 over the limit in miles and think I would get screwed when I trade the car in with the extra miles.
So thats why I bought cars every 2 -3 years
Because I need to get to work with a reliable car at that time.
But now I bought a 2006 Stang Gt with I think it has aroiund 28,000 miles on it and I hate to have a car without a warentty when it ends in Oct.
When I bought the 2006 Stang Gt
It cost $28,000 at invoice
I think I paid 19,000 cash down and paid the rest within 6 months.I hate paying interest.
With the Camaro I would use the Stang Gt as a tradein and maybe I will get $14,000 for it and the rest I will pay cash.
As for the Tax????
In Pa. if you tradein your old car and buy a new car.The taxes on the new car will be alot lower because you paid tax on the older car.
I am not sure how it works but whenever I traded in a car,on the new car the taxes would always be lower....

Ohhhhh I do agree with you
The Family comes first and so does the house.
You can take the kids on vacation in your new camaro around the block a few times lol.
Yep if you are only getting 2 weeks a year,I know a vacation would be high on the list.
When I worked.
Vacation was everyday lol
When it rained I would call sick and when it snowed I would take the whole winter off.
I told my bosses how can I get to work in the snow in a mustang lol.
Thats the benefits when working for the city of NY.
I know if I woked for a private company I would have gor fired lol.....Jt

 

i went to my local dealer yesterday asking about the camaro pricing.no info exept no mark up whoo-hoo and then i am one of the lucky ones i get gm discount i also heard from berger chevrolet they are doing a special verson of the camaro just like they did in the old days but they are only doing 30 or so they are probly spoken for already.my camaro will be rs/ss rally yellow black racing stripes with l99 auto

 

I talked to the GM at Polar Chev here in MN about the new Camaro and Specifically a vert. I told him I would not pay more than $500 over invoice and he agreed to it. This was about 1 1/2 years ago. I still have the email and will bring it in when I order it next December for my 40th bday. Shop around there is more than one dealer out there that will not try to take advantage of you.

 

unless he agreed on a specific date he will sell you that car, that quote is useless. Maybe youll get $500 over invoice EVENTUALLY when/if they have trouble selling the car much later after its release, but theyre not gonna give you that price when theyre going to be selling it for much more than that (understandibly so) to thousands upon thousands of customers that will be willing to pay thousands upon thousands more than youre offer.Sorry to say but $$$ talks and 500 over invoice is barely a whisper, especially with a car that is all but guaranteed to move a lot of units.

BTW. Selling a car at MSRP is not taking advantage of anyone.