Lamenting the loss of the Firebird [PODCAST THREAD OF THE WEEK!]
10-10-2006, 12:10 PM
#1
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Lamenting the loss of the Firebird
Before anyone complains or says “not this again” let me say upfront that this post is absolutely NOT about bashing GM for not building the Firebird or to re-hash the reasons why GM is not building it.
I think everything that can be said about the “why” has been said many times and as a businessman; especially one connected to the industry, I fully understand GM’s decision - were I in a position to make it I probably would have made the same decision as the management of GM made.
What I did want to comment on is why those of us who love the Firebird feel a bit betrayed and, more importantly, why it saddens us to know our car now lives only as a part of automotive history. I want to comment on it because from what I’ve read here and from talking to people it seems to me that many of you just don’t understand why the Firebird is of that kind of importance to us.
Many of you who have come to the game only during the years of the fourth generation and, to a slightly lesser extend, during the third generation know and understand the “F-Body’ – you came at a time when the differences; both the quantifiable and the highly subjective were few; sometimes even downplayed by GM itself. You knew that if you replaced a few pieces of sheet metal and interior pieces; you wouldn’t know if you were in a Trans AM or a Z/28. At the risk of oversimplifying, I suspect many of you have a hard time understanding how anybody would decide not to buy a fifth generation Camaro just because there is no Firebird…for you, it just isn’t that important an issue.
However, for those of us with a bit more grey hair (assuming we still have hair)…for those who remember the first and second generation cars because we were there and we owned them; we aren’t “F-Body” guys nearly as much as we are Camaro or Firebird guys.
I remember a time when THE car to have was the Trans Am and as good and as similar as it might be, a Z/28 was simply not a Trans Am.
I remember a time when Pontiac guys were Pontiac guys and Pontiac guys just didn’t buy Chevy’s. Yes, as you got older you might move up to Buick and then, when you really arrived, Cadillac but the rivalry between Chevy, Pontiac (and to a lesser extent, Olds and Buick) was real and substantive. The rivalry between Camaro and Firebird was just as significant as between Camaro or Firebird and Mustang.
I remember a time when if you bought a Pontiac you got a Pontiac engine and if you bought a Chevy you got a Chevy engine…granted; the similarities between the various GM brands far exceeded the differences but there were real differences (as well as some differences that were primarily marketing issues) but the differences that did exist were important to us when we went to buy a new car.
I’ve always respected the Camaro but I bought Firebirds and I never even considered buying a Camaro. Yes, I did buy a 2000 Z/28 but the only reason I bought it over the Firebird was simply a matter of looks (and because there really was no significant difference between the two cars by that point other than looks).
The Firebirds were the cars I was passionate about; in many respects it was the car that made me love cars so its passing is significant to me and to others like me.
Should those of us who are older "live in the past"? Of course not. But many of us love the Firebird in a way that many of you will not understand and its disappearance from GM’s lineup hurts deeply…while you may not share or understand our feelings about that at least try to understand that we have them and don’t deride those who, for whatever reason, can’t make the transition to a “Camaro only” world.
May the Camaro live long and prosper; but I’ll always miss my Firebird!
I think everything that can be said about the “why” has been said many times and as a businessman; especially one connected to the industry, I fully understand GM’s decision - were I in a position to make it I probably would have made the same decision as the management of GM made.
What I did want to comment on is why those of us who love the Firebird feel a bit betrayed and, more importantly, why it saddens us to know our car now lives only as a part of automotive history. I want to comment on it because from what I’ve read here and from talking to people it seems to me that many of you just don’t understand why the Firebird is of that kind of importance to us.
Many of you who have come to the game only during the years of the fourth generation and, to a slightly lesser extend, during the third generation know and understand the “F-Body’ – you came at a time when the differences; both the quantifiable and the highly subjective were few; sometimes even downplayed by GM itself. You knew that if you replaced a few pieces of sheet metal and interior pieces; you wouldn’t know if you were in a Trans AM or a Z/28. At the risk of oversimplifying, I suspect many of you have a hard time understanding how anybody would decide not to buy a fifth generation Camaro just because there is no Firebird…for you, it just isn’t that important an issue.
However, for those of us with a bit more grey hair (assuming we still have hair)…for those who remember the first and second generation cars because we were there and we owned them; we aren’t “F-Body” guys nearly as much as we are Camaro or Firebird guys.
I remember a time when THE car to have was the Trans Am and as good and as similar as it might be, a Z/28 was simply not a Trans Am.
I remember a time when Pontiac guys were Pontiac guys and Pontiac guys just didn’t buy Chevy’s. Yes, as you got older you might move up to Buick and then, when you really arrived, Cadillac but the rivalry between Chevy, Pontiac (and to a lesser extent, Olds and Buick) was real and substantive. The rivalry between Camaro and Firebird was just as significant as between Camaro or Firebird and Mustang.
I remember a time when if you bought a Pontiac you got a Pontiac engine and if you bought a Chevy you got a Chevy engine…granted; the similarities between the various GM brands far exceeded the differences but there were real differences (as well as some differences that were primarily marketing issues) but the differences that did exist were important to us when we went to buy a new car.
I’ve always respected the Camaro but I bought Firebirds and I never even considered buying a Camaro. Yes, I did buy a 2000 Z/28 but the only reason I bought it over the Firebird was simply a matter of looks (and because there really was no significant difference between the two cars by that point other than looks).
The Firebirds were the cars I was passionate about; in many respects it was the car that made me love cars so its passing is significant to me and to others like me.
Should those of us who are older "live in the past"? Of course not. But many of us love the Firebird in a way that many of you will not understand and its disappearance from GM’s lineup hurts deeply…while you may not share or understand our feelings about that at least try to understand that we have them and don’t deride those who, for whatever reason, can’t make the transition to a “Camaro only” world.
May the Camaro live long and prosper; but I’ll always miss my Firebird!
10-10-2006, 12:15 PM
#2
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Join Date: Dec 1997
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Re: Lamenting the loss of the Firebird
I agree.
The following is not a "read between the lines" message, but one thing I have learned is "never say never". Things can and do change. In this business, I no longer expect that when something is gone that it will never come back. You just never know.
The following is not a "read between the lines" message, but one thing I have learned is "never say never". Things can and do change. In this business, I no longer expect that when something is gone that it will never come back. You just never know.
10-10-2006, 12:27 PM
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Re: Lamenting the loss of the Firebird
Originally Posted by JasonD
I agree.
The following is not a "read between the lines" message, but one thing I have learned is "never say never". Things can and do change. In this business, I no longer expect that when something is gone that it will never come back. You just never know.
The following is not a "read between the lines" message, but one thing I have learned is "never say never". Things can and do change. In this business, I no longer expect that when something is gone that it will never come back. You just never know.
10-10-2006, 12:43 PM
#6
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 388
Re: Lamenting the loss of the Firebird
Well said, Bob! I totally agree!
As much as I'm looking forward to the new Camaro (and it's extreme), I will be very sad to part with my '99 TA WS6. Having wanted a TA since I was 7 years old, owning that car has been a long held dream of mine. And while I appreciate the love of heritage that people have, I'm not the sort of person to keep an old car when the next generation is available....so for me the new car will definitely be a parting. It's nice to know others feel these things as deeply.
As much as I'm looking forward to the new Camaro (and it's extreme), I will be very sad to part with my '99 TA WS6. Having wanted a TA since I was 7 years old, owning that car has been a long held dream of mine. And while I appreciate the love of heritage that people have, I'm not the sort of person to keep an old car when the next generation is available....so for me the new car will definitely be a parting. It's nice to know others feel these things as deeply.
Re: Lamenting the loss of the Firebird
10-10-2006, 01:16 PM
#8
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Oshawa - Home of the 5th-gen
Posts: 5,308
Re: Lamenting the loss of the Firebird
My parents had a '77 Formula when I was ~3 - 6 years old. It was the first F-body I was ever in. I still remember that car as if it was in our driveway yesterday (even though it's nearly 2 decades since it's been gone!
... damn, that's starting to show my age too 
). I've always loved the looks of Firebirds over the years. They've always been (IMO) more "unique", and looked like nothing else on the road (except the early years when they looked a lot like GTO's?
).
The thing is, my Dad has always been a Chevy guy (even our Formula had a 350 SBC in it because the original Pontiac 301 died
) so I've grown up leaning to the Chevy side of things, hence, become a Camaro guy 
. But the Firebird was a great car and has a huge following all its own ... I'm sad to see it gone too 
. GM does enough inter-brand competing, it's almost a wonder they can't keep the "tradition" going?! 
... damn, that's starting to show my age too ). I've always loved the looks of Firebirds over the years. They've always been (IMO) more "unique", and looked like nothing else on the road (except the early years when they looked a lot like GTO's? ).The thing is, my Dad has always been a Chevy guy (even our Formula had a 350 SBC in it because the original Pontiac 301 died
) so I've grown up leaning to the Chevy side of things, hence, become a Camaro guy . But the Firebird was a great car and has a huge following all its own ... I'm sad to see it gone too . GM does enough inter-brand competing, it's almost a wonder they can't keep the "tradition" going?!
10-10-2006, 03:00 PM
#11
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Location: Irving, TX
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Re: Lamenting the loss of the Firebird
First car I purchased for me with my own money was my '02 Formula. I am sad that I won't be able to get an '09 formula or trans am, especially with some of the chops of the Camaro that I have seen. But, if they ever decide to bring it back as a Camaro cousin, I might just go get one. Till then, saving the money for the '09 Camaro.
Your post was very nicely put.
Your post was very nicely put.
10-10-2006, 04:48 PM
#13
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Location: Oakland, California
Posts: 9,710
Re: Lamenting the loss of the Firebird
Originally Posted by Z284ever
Good post. A far as I'm concerned, Firebird died after 1981. Sorry if that offends anyone.
Pontiac needs an image vehicle. Whether you call that vehicle Firebird, Trans Am, GTO or ??? it needs to be a tire shredding, kick ***, corner carving, snarling beast. That's what Pontiac stood for at one time. That's what Pontiac will always need to hold up to in my mind. The question is which direction should GM take with this Pontiac Halo-car? Should it be the next gen GTO? A Camaro sister-car with AWD? A Corvette sister-car? Or something completely different to compete with the BMW, Porsche and Skyline GT-R's of the world?
Pontiac definitely needs such a vehicle. I guess the rest is up to GM and the strength of the Pontiac Performance enthusiasts' voice.
10-10-2006, 05:06 PM
#14
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Re: Lamenting the loss of the Firebird
Originally Posted by jg95z28
Ditto. I remember when Firebird's had Oldsmobile engines.
It was around that same time frame or just before that, if I remember correctly, there was one or more lawsuits against GM for because of, for example, a Buick buyer getting a Chevrolet engine, etc...I think there is still some "verbage" on the window sticker to this day to explain that if you buy a Cadillac you are getting a "GM" enging but not a "Cadillac" engine.