While a great history lesson, by no means does it explain why there's nothing unique, fresh, forward thinking in the concept.

Another point you piont out is that Detroit isn't an innovative think tank. You never did ask why Detroit had to copy the Europeans or Asians. Could it be because those in Detroit were (a bit) out of touch with the changing automtive environment; higher gas prices, increased safety and environmental standards, and an increasing amount of women making the buying choice? How is it a business (Detroit) can rise to such a powerful position in the '40s through the '70s and just fall flat on it's face....for so long?

It not that the domestics were copying their rivals that led to their downfall, it was that they were putting out inferior products. Not equal clone-mobiles, but inferior. Lug nuts rusting on Aspens, X-cars getting myiads of recalls, gunslit IPs on Pontiacs and Chevy trucks, small buttons for the HVAC controls (some places out of reach), etc.

It's not like Detroit hasn't show it has the brains and backbone to show how it's done. Ford pulled two big coups in the '80s with the '83 T-Bird and '85 Taurus, Chrysler did it twice with the '84 Minivan and '92 cabforward LHS cars (plus the Crossfire, Charger, RAM, 300), Chevy redefined the full size truck with the '88 C/K series, and most recently Nissan and Mazda have been hot with new models that have character and unique features/styling elements that capture attention and customers. There's too many examples that the fresh, innovative, unique product get's the most people most excited and puts you on the larger stage.

You saying the best we can do is copy the past, we've either run out of ideas or we don't want to work that hard? All I hear is an arguement for continuing complacency and lowered expectations.

 

yup you just answered you own questions...Detroit has been out of touch...yes they have been trying to copy what they did not know. They were caught off guard buy this. Fell into the trap of how do we do this....yes there are shining moments that brought us great cars. But moments..thats it..and yes one great thing I left out was the lack of quality we put into our cars. Im not going to get into the whole economics of why things changed just to justify the way the Camaro looks. Yes nissan is making some great cars, heck even the 350 Z ANOTHER RETRO design but no one is bashing that..are all great cars... but the simple question is..

How do you make the Camaro look now? The buying public hated the f body..great performer but as you mentioned female buyers are now a big part and Camaro was not cutting it. So what do you do? The mustang is its rival.
How can you present something that is Camaro that will influence the buyer to buy it over the Mustang if it doesnt follow the same path. Im sorry they are joined at the hip..

I guess we can agree to dissagree on this subject..

your set in your views and retro is not something that you want. Me Ill take it. It screams Camaro to me. I love all gens of Camaro, heck IM keeping my 94, not parting with it..but yea were just polar oposites to the concept

 

Show me the car that the 350Z looks like.

The possibilities for what the Camaro COULD look like are endless. So what you are saying is that whatever the Mustang does, the Camaro has to follow? How is this original? GM had a real chance to differentiate itself from the Mustang but they choose to follow and remain in that large shadow instead of maybe casting a little bit on the Ford.

Yup, no problem there.


I love all gens too and I won't sell my Camaro either. Now all I can do is hope that the production car gets me excited about the 5th gen because I really want to like it.

 

Agreed.

 

well, the Mustang is selling like crack at the dealerships, the F-body could barely pay for its own tooling...I'd say yes, they need to follow suit or risk losing out in a big way.

 

Actually yes they do. The Camaro had a lower roofline and was a little wider but park the two next to each other and you can easily see that they are cut from the same vein.

 

Here we go, I had to break out the pictures again.

 

^^^^

Indeed and like I said, aside from being a little taller and narrower than the F-body, the Mustang GT and Z28 are shaped like what pony cars of the time looked like. Thats my whole point here. Of course they do not look dead on ***** alike, but you can see that they both are pony cars. Same with the Camaro concept and new Mustang, and just about every other Camaro Mustang comparo (excluding the Mustang II's and early Mach 1's)

 

Well, you see what you see. I have never heard anyone say that a Fox body and Third gen have the same basic shape.

 

I'll be damned if it doesn't look like the Mustang.

 

OMG! Not even close!




As for the concept and the new mustang there is a very vague resemblance but I had to really look hard to see what some of you are talking about,still not sure though what y'all see.

 

Sorry - I see virtually no resemblence between a 3rd Gen F-body and a Fox Mustang.

They do both have 4 wheels and tires, though.

 

The Escort looked closer to the Fox than the 3rd gen, and even that is a stretch.

 

Lets put it this way the Camaro was not an original idea, it was for a lack of better term Chevy's Mustang..
They did differentiate with the Mustang with the 4th gen F bodies and pretty much alienated us from the rest of the automotive world. Hands down winner in the performance market but in every other catagory the Mustang won by a landslide, and this was written in every comparison test done. That is one of many reasons it got canned. The Mustang is Fords Corvette. Its halo car, Camaro will never hold that spot and therfore cannot cast a shadow on any mustang comming out now. Just not going to happen.


and the car that looks like the 350Z??

how bout It pays homage to its old company Datsun..the 240Z


http://www.angelfire.com/film/auto_p...SUN_240Z_5.jpg


Nissan brought us the concept of this new Z





brings us to the more recent concept the 350Z concept..



to what you have now on the streets..and that 350 Z is the retro car of the Datsun 240Z.

 

and the 3rd gen camaro to the fox bodies stang...I see what hes saying its the same styling element..sharp boxy shape..long hood short rear deck..an 80's pony car. Heck even the 2nd gen and Mustang 2 had alot of similarities..