guionM

Unlike many here, I will give you an honest assesment of the choice between the Camaro and Challenger without alot of hyperboil, slant, or Camaro chestbeating that you (as you see) there is alot of here.

I will tell you straight up, the Challenger SRT will be a collectors item. It's in very high demand, will be made in very few numbers, and while there may be a point where Charger & 300 SRTs may start coming down in price, the Challenger SRT resale value will stay pretty high regardless as to what happens to Chrysler or fuel prices.

Unless Chrysler screws the pooch on the quality of the Challenger, the R/T is likely to hold its value better than the Camaro. First of all, if Camaro reaches it's goal of 100K plus vehicles per year, it will hold it's value at a similar rate as the current Mustang has. While the Challenger is expected to top out at no more than 50K per year. The reason why original Challengers bring astronomical prices at auctions is that so few of them survived. Throw in the extremelyt rare Hemi engine, and auction prices go well into the stratosphere. Sure, when new, both Mustang and Camaro were better cars, but there's no Mustang or Camaro that came from the factory (save what's left of the 69 the ZL1s) that's commanding a quarter million dollars.

But steping away from maintaining resale value, and looking at the cars themselves, it becomes more of what your taste and expectations are.

The Challenger is essentially a modern Chevelle SS/Pontiac GTO/Plymouth Road Runner/Ford Torino GT/Oldsmobile 442. It's a big, very fast, attention getting car that's going to be great for cruising nights and road trips with more than 1 passenger. It has a bigger trunk than an Impala & it has more rear seat room than Camaro or Mustang. All magazine tests on the SRT version so far give it very high praise as being a car that's easy to throw around a race course. Balenced and easy to control, even outscoring a Shelby GT500 in one test. Because of the Challenger's minimalist styling, I suspect the Challenger will hold it's looks fresher longer than the pretty highly styled Camaro will. That on top of the fact that at 300,000 Camaros between it's 1st 3-4 years (vs half or less as many Challengers) you won't see yourself coming and going as much. Also, Challenger is probably the biggest thing in the US you can still get a stick shift in.

The Challenger R/T actually has good fuel economy with their new "Hemi 2". More horsepower, god's own torque numbers, and cylinder deactivation as well as other tricks that bring fuel economy up past LS3 territory.

Also, Challengers are built off the bulletproof LX chassis. Pretty much the only other cars that approach the LX's (incl Challenger's) structural toughness is the Holden sourced GTO. The Chrysler Hemi has proven virturally indestructable. And remember, the Challenger (like the LX) has plenty of parts either sorced by or engineered by Mercedes Benz. Tough to beat that.

Down side.

While Ford is sittiong on top of the most cash of any US automaker and can still raise more, and GM can leverage loans against their European assets, Chrysler as a private company owned by a what is essentially an investment house is the most venerable to being sold off, sent into bankruptcy, or (because Chrysler makes up only 5% of Cerberus' holdings) simply folded and shut down leaving you stuck with a car with no warranty (unless someone buys the company and assumes all responsibilities like when Chrysler bought AMC.

The fact that there will be fewer Challengers than Camaros and Mustangs mean fewer aftermarket parts outside of the factory. Although the Challenger is getting great reviews on it's handling, at least one version of the Camaro has been tuned by doing hot laps at Nürburgring.


Cutting to the chase, if I were buying a V6, it would be no contest. The Chevy Camaro with it's 50/50 weight distribution, direct injection V6 of over 300 horsepower and high fuel economy, along with a manual tranny and performance tuned suspension makes it a no brainer next to the Challenger's auto only, "afterthought" mentality of the V6 version. It won't be a dog, but Camaro's version will corner the V6=fun market even better than the Mustang will manage.

Between the SS Camaro and R/T Challenger, I'd say the jury is still hearing the case. We need a) the actual weight of the Camaro, and b) the actual output of the engine, and c) the gearing and d) the performance and fuel mileage of the production version of both cars before one can make a final judgement. That goes without mentioning driving characteristics and interior room as well as general feel and quality of materials and how trhe cockpit actually feels. Things one can't possibly objectively judge until both cars are available. At the moment, I'd give the edge to Challenger R/T, but that's tentative.

And finally, between the Z28 and the SRT. Based on what I know and nothing else, I'd say the supercharged Z28 would get my nod over the SRT8 Challenger... but conditionally.

The Camaro will apparently be pumping out more horsepower at a similar weight (Challenger will get a supercharger itself, but it will likely weigh slightly more). But then, one has to again consider fuel economy. Anyone believing 500+ horsepower is going to come in a 4000 lb plus car at the same fuel economy as a 430 horse V8 does in a 3200 pound Corvette is almost certainly abusing perscription or illegal drugs. The fuel economy of a 500+ horse Camaro might actually make an SRT8 Challenger look good. The additional weight necessary to handle a 4000+ pound Camaro might leave the Challenger SRT8 the champ in a matchup due to the SRT having less weight per pound/feet of torque to slingshot from a stop.

Best bet if you're serious about buying is to wait till both cars come out. The R/T is available now (at least on order forms), and the Camaro, Camaro RS (or RT) and Camaro SS will be up for ordering no later than another 5 months.

My suggestion is to wait before you make a final decision.

christianjax

Another thing to consider, aftermarket. I own a 06 Dodge Charger Daytona, and a 99 LS1 Trans Am. The aftermarket is HUGE for the Trans Am and not so much for the Charger. They are a tougher nut to crack. Something to consider if you plan on modding. That said, I love my Charger. Great car. And if the Challenger is the same quality I'd be very pleased with it. But my money is going on the Camaro.

evilawd4g63

i would never give up a new camaro for any new dodge, viper included. im with cristian jax on the whole mod thing, just like in the beginning of time, everything you could want should be available for the camaro, hell, they already have the gmpp accessories shown in another post whether you like them or not, also im sure that interchangability will be way more userfriendly than chrysler, also, like them or not, the gto's were bad *** imho for an off the showroom floor car, and i think that the new v8 camaros will probably far surpass them

Shellhead

I've driven a lot of SRT8 cars in the last few years - and they are enjoyable, solid, quality cars all the way around. BUT, I still very much enjoyed and missed my '99 T/A WS6 every minute I drove the SRT8's. Why?

The SRT8's were completely souless. You don't hear any exhaust rumble when you're sitting at a stoplight unless you mash the gas. There's nothing that you sense at all in that car that makes it feel like it's overpowered and ready to take off. It's great in a straight line, and the handling is good, but there's no body roll to make cornering fast very much fun. The mileage is abysmal. Keep in mind that I make these comparisons based on my Trans Am and in everything I've said above, my Trans Am SOUNDLY beat the SRT8's that I drove.

What worries me also is that the Challenger has a lot borrowed from the other SRT8's, but there's also a lot borrowed from the base LX vehicles - and I mean A LOT!! I've seen it affect the driving dynamics of the car, and frankly, I'd be worried that the car can't take the punishment in the long term.

The new Camaro on the other hand is a purpose built car on a new platform. I have no reservations about "borrowed" components dragging the car's handling or performance down because the platform itself was intended to offer high performance in every car it was used on. Chrysler's LX platform was not - it was mainly intended to be versatile and economically superior but it was not intended as a performance platform from the start.

dacook

That's what I'm going to do.

The Dodge dealer told me that if I ordered a Challenger now, it would be delivered about November. Only a few months more and there will be Camaros to look at.

But...will there be the top Camaro to compare with the SRT8? Don't know.
Maybe we'll know on the 22nd???

But I'll wait anyway. By then I may have saved enough to pay cash for whichever I get anyway.

Thanks all for the responses.

JakeRobb

I'd love to hear any reasons or suspicions you have to support this, because my feeling is entirely the opposite. I expect the Camaro SS to outperform Challenger R/T in pretty much every regard. R/T's only edge I can see over the SS is interior room and trunk room.

Are you crazy? Body roll makes cornering scary, not fun.

Purpose built? I only wish that were the case.

It's a great platform -- don't get me wrong. But, it is not the perfect platform for Camaro. If it were, we wouldn't be having all those bitchfests about weight.

ChrisL

In terms of pricing... I truely believe once Camaro pricing is announced, the Challenger will go run and hide. You better LOVE Challenger because it will likely cost a whole bunch more to buy one.

It may end up that the fair fight performance wise will be

Camaro V8 - Challenger SRT8
Camaro V6 - Challenger R/T

Let's see how this plays out once GM announces Camaro info. I know there are some suprises coming....

guionM

If performance counted, we'd still have Camaros and the Mustang would have been on hiatus. Even though I'm a performance fan, to be honest, I couldn't care less if the new Camaro outperforms Challenger or even Mustang. I'm going for the car that best suits what I need, want, and is a priority. And so will probably 99% of the new car buyers. If Camaro is the slowest of the group, but still is closer to what I want, it will win just like Mustang and Challenger will win my cash if either one of them comes closest to what I need or want. All 3 are extremely quick. All 3 handle extremely well. One isn't likely to embarass the others, so it's down to personal items.

Do I care if 1 car is .2 seconds quicker in the quarter mile? Nope. How often does anyone take their car to the drag strip. Do I care if a car gets around a test track in Germany I will never drive a few seconds quicker than another? Uh..nope.

What I DO care about is that the car is well made. That when I sit inside it, I like what I see and feel.

I drive long distances, are the seats something I can live on the Interstate with till I have to refuel again?

Sure, the car may blaze around a smooth racetrack, but does it feel comfortable zipping around sometimes bumpy and uneven curves of Highway 1? Is the steering well balenced and gives great feedback? Does the transmission shifter flow smoothly into each gear? Does the brakes haul down the car like nobody's business? When it's time to replace things, is it going to take me to the cleaners (Brembo brake replacement parts aren't cheap)?

Finally, is it a car I'm going to enjoy without any regrets for the duration of the car payments.

Yes, price, interior, and trunk space are big players, and give the Challenger the edge. But as I mentioned, the jury's still out to answer the questions I posted above.

I see Challenger R/T is a much quicker modern version of the Thunderbird SC. Big roomy, and very, very fast (positive). I see the current Mustang (as opposed to the very different previous version) as a step sideways from my 4th gen Camaro. It's just as wide and drives, handles, and feels very similar to my 4th gen (including acceleration). The new Camaro is an unknown quanity. Sure, it came off a G8 chassis, but there is so many different componets, tuning, tweaks, and weight distribution and chassis dynamics, there is no way in know what this car is like until you actually take one out and see (and compare) for yourself.

The Challenger R/T has the edge with me right now. But that can be lost if Camaro SS:

* Undercuts the R/T's price... not by a few dollars, but by a few thousand dollars.
* The interior materials on the camaro make up for the spartan look of the concept.
* The SS rides better, it's seats are better, and it just feels better than the R/T.
* Has a better back seat area than the Challenger, or at least can carry live people older than 4.
* Is overall a much better deal than the R/T.

The V6 Camaro already by all indications blows away the V6 Challenger. The Challenger won't be slow, but the Camaro seem to have the right package down to a manual. The Z28 (assuming it's the same price of the SRT, but I doubt it) will be packing alot more horses for the money, though it still won't be cheap... or lightweight... gets my tentative nod over the Challenger SRT8.

But again, in the R/T versus the SS contest, the jury is waiting for more information.

Gripenfelter

There probably won't be a top dog Camaro out in the first year but if you can't wait one more year I hope you have that SRT-8 modded enough to beat off the 500+ hp bone stock top dog SC Camaros.

Just talking out of my a$$ here btw.

HAZ-Matt

For people buying the SRT8 or the Z28 I think color availability will make more of a difference than MPG

radz282003

I think the top Camaro will do very well against an SRT8 when it finally comes out. I don't think it will come out 4000+ lbs. (well, I HOPE not.) I'm sure it will come in close to LSA territory power-wise, which means it should be pretty close to performance numbers posted by the CTS-V. I haven't caught all the numbers of the CTS-V yet (and don't recall that they've even been released for that matter) but that may just be a bad comparison since it's on a completely different chassis. From the comparisons between R/T Chargers vs. the G8, I'd extrapolate that given an SRT8 Chally' has more power and handles a little better and a G8 with about the same weight with another 100 horsepower, we'd have a pretty good battle.

I'm biased (duh) but I think a top dog Camaro would beat a SRT8 Chally' in every performance regimine and in terms of ergonomics, it would fair at least as well. It seems many rags' like the looks and feeling of the G8 and they aren't all that woo'd by the SRT8. Who knows how close Camaro will match the G8 though?... I think interior space-wise, the Chally' will win since it's just plain huge. I just think until the six-speed comes out the Chally' will be a little piggy, but once it's here, it will come into it's own and give any 5th. Gen. a pretty good run.

What's this about the statement regarding a supercharged SRT8? Do you mean from the factory or one of the tuners like Hennessy?

detroitboy

Do your homework on Ebay.....it does not look like Challengers are actually SELLING for for more than $3000 over sticker. And theres a ton of them for sale too. Anyone can ask whatever inflated price they want, but getting someone to buy it at the rediculous price being asked is a totally different matter.

falchulk

I dont know what srt8 you were driving but the Charger is definitely no soulless. Its a monster. Its also not dead quiet at an idle. There is lope in there. If it was too quiet for your taste all it takes is a new exhaust. The RT is too quiet at idle with the stock exhaust. Maybe you were driving an RT?

guionM

One at at a local Dodge dealer sold at 25K over. There's 2 dealers on this site that have relayed their experience with the demand for the Challenger.

Perhaps some of them were the very same scalpers who bought them and then dumped them on e-bay. Perhaps some of them were people who don't like going to ebay and buying a used car. The going price for a used Challenger SRT8 (which is actually what they are) seems to be settling in on the mid 40s to mid 50s range, which means they should still command $60K (and apparently still are).

Shellhead

Obviously too much body roll is scary, but I think it's actually less enjoyable to drive a car that stays perfectly upright through the corners. I'm probably not being clear, but the SRT8's that drove all rode more like high-powered Bonnevilles than pony cars.

Note that I didn't say Zeta was the *perfect* platform - in my experience there is no such thing. You'll never get a platform that has the ideal stiffness, structure, cost and weight for a car like Camaro because that platform won't be economically feasible for a wide range of applications - especially higher volume. But the Zeta platform is not just borrowed from a sedan like the LX platform is - the platform is being specifically modified for Camaro and Chrysler did (and does) not spend the time or money doing that for the SRT's.