Lutz: GM mulls 4-cylinder engine for new Camaro
03-21-2008 | 03:37 PM
#106
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 94
The thing that is totally silly about this hyperbole is that the reason anyone is suggesting putting an Ecotec in the Camaro is to increase fuel efficiency. However a turbo version isn't going to help that.
Let's consider the epa mpgs on some current GM models for a moment:
2008 Impala 3.5L/A4 - 18c/29h - 23 combined
2008 Malibu 2.2L/A4 - 22c/30h - 26 combined
2008 Solstice Turbo 2.0L/M5 - 19c/28h - 23 combined (on premium fuel).
Considering the Impala is more massive than the Solstice (and a future Camaro), those mpg numbers are impressive for a V6. What's more is that anything other than the non-turbo version of the Ecotec (which quite frankly would be too gutless for a 3700-lb Camaro) isn't going improve mileage over a V6, and a turbo version would require premium fuel.
At some point down the road, yes a turbo 4-cylinder may find its way into a Camaro, however that point isn't now as the combination just doesn't work at this time. I'd rather see a future smaller Camaro developed that is engineered with a turbo 4-cylinder from the start, and not just throw in a "more efficient" engine as a knee-jerk reaction to a proposed regulation (CAFE) that isn't even going to be 100% worked in for another 12 years.
Let's consider the epa mpgs on some current GM models for a moment:
2008 Impala 3.5L/A4 - 18c/29h - 23 combined
2008 Malibu 2.2L/A4 - 22c/30h - 26 combined
2008 Solstice Turbo 2.0L/M5 - 19c/28h - 23 combined (on premium fuel).
Considering the Impala is more massive than the Solstice (and a future Camaro), those mpg numbers are impressive for a V6. What's more is that anything other than the non-turbo version of the Ecotec (which quite frankly would be too gutless for a 3700-lb Camaro) isn't going improve mileage over a V6, and a turbo version would require premium fuel.
At some point down the road, yes a turbo 4-cylinder may find its way into a Camaro, however that point isn't now as the combination just doesn't work at this time. I'd rather see a future smaller Camaro developed that is engineered with a turbo 4-cylinder from the start, and not just throw in a "more efficient" engine as a knee-jerk reaction to a proposed regulation (CAFE) that isn't even going to be 100% worked in for another 12 years.
03-21-2008 | 04:07 PM
#107
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Posts: 9,710
From: Oakland, California
03-21-2008 | 05:19 PM
#109
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 564
From: Cody,Wyoming 82414
Yeah, but when you stop at the light and one of these new stock v8 camaro's pull up next to you________!
It's about time Chevy pulls one over Ford, and the premium I'll pay for my new camaro is fine with me knowing, my stock v8 400hp could run with anything ford or dodge has as a base model v8, and a few that are SRT-8 and SVO. as for a 4 banger and v6 I don't care. I want a v8.
Last edited by Kaj; 03-21-2008 at 05:25 PM.
03-21-2008 | 05:22 PM
#110
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 213
From: Cleveland, OH
The only real problem I have with turbo'd engines is the reliability concern and higher maintenance. Since I'm no turbo expert, they may have changed things in the last few years but the last I knew about turbos you really need to use synthetic oil and before you shut the car off you need to let the turbos wind down by letting the engine idle a minute. You risk shorter life of the turbo bearings if you shut the engine (and thus oil pressure to the turbo bearings) before they wind down. Who's gonna sit in their garage, at the mall, or in their spot at work for a minute before they shut the engine off? Not to mention they run hot, have lag (I've never driven a turbo that didn't take a few seconds to realize you put the hammer down), and that whine. Ugh!
Well built V6s and V8s are pretty much change the oil and forget about it reliable. You can drive them hard all day, come in to the garage, shut it off, and not think twice about it. Most 6's are good with any kind of half decent oil, and if the V8 isn't a high performance design, you can use just about any oil in them as well. Good for 150-200,000 miles of fun, trouble free, worry free motoring. They are smooth, V8s sound great at all RPMs, and even now V6s sound great so long as they aren't pushed to the absolute limit.
When was the last time anyone made a turbo charged engine you could say that about?
Well built V6s and V8s are pretty much change the oil and forget about it reliable. You can drive them hard all day, come in to the garage, shut it off, and not think twice about it. Most 6's are good with any kind of half decent oil, and if the V8 isn't a high performance design, you can use just about any oil in them as well. Good for 150-200,000 miles of fun, trouble free, worry free motoring. They are smooth, V8s sound great at all RPMs, and even now V6s sound great so long as they aren't pushed to the absolute limit.
When was the last time anyone made a turbo charged engine you could say that about?
03-21-2008 | 05:52 PM
#111
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 619
The only real problem I have with turbo'd engines is the reliability concern and higher maintenance. Since I'm no turbo expert, they may have changed things in the last few years but the last I knew about turbos you really need to use synthetic oil and before you shut the car off you need to let the turbos wind down by letting the engine idle a minute. You risk shorter life of the turbo bearings if you shut the engine (and thus oil pressure to the turbo bearings) before they wind down. Who's gonna sit in their garage, at the mall, or in their spot at work for a minute before they shut the engine off? Not to mention they run hot, have lag (I've never driven a turbo that didn't take a few seconds to realize you put the hammer down), and that whine. Ugh!
Well built V6s and V8s are pretty much change the oil and forget about it reliable. You can drive them hard all day, come in to the garage, shut it off, and not think twice about it. Most 6's are good with any kind of half decent oil, and if the V8 isn't a high performance design, you can use just about any oil in them as well. Good for 150-200,000 miles of fun, trouble free, worry free motoring. They are smooth, V8s sound great at all RPMs, and even now V6s sound great so long as they aren't pushed to the absolute limit.
When was the last time anyone made a turbo charged engine you could say that about?
Well built V6s and V8s are pretty much change the oil and forget about it reliable. You can drive them hard all day, come in to the garage, shut it off, and not think twice about it. Most 6's are good with any kind of half decent oil, and if the V8 isn't a high performance design, you can use just about any oil in them as well. Good for 150-200,000 miles of fun, trouble free, worry free motoring. They are smooth, V8s sound great at all RPMs, and even now V6s sound great so long as they aren't pushed to the absolute limit.
When was the last time anyone made a turbo charged engine you could say that about?
i dont know why you kept talking about the v8 though.
and ive never really heard a turbo "whine" either.
03-21-2008 | 06:04 PM
#112
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 233
Turbos have a very faint hissing noise while they're building boost, and then when you let off the gas (say, to shift) the excess pressure is released via a blow off valve, which makes a more pronounced hiss, or sometimes a quick high pitched whistle noise that lasts for a split second (but that's usually with aftermarket turbo systems that are optimized for power at he expense of noise)
03-21-2008 | 06:24 PM
#113
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 213
From: Cleveland, OH
What do you mean that I kept talking about V8s????? I only mentioned that well built V6s and V8s are far more reliable and sound better than turbos.
As for the whine, well, whine - boom - hiss....... turbos do make an odd sound when spooled up.
It just sounds artificial. An NA engine is just natural, whether it's pushrod or OHC, NA engines sound better than FI. They sound like an engine should.
03-21-2008 | 10:39 PM
#114
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 122
From: St. Louis, MO
Fastball,
If you're buying a 20k + car, don't you think it makes sense to put synthetic oil in it? Seriously, conventional oil is straight crap, if you can afford to fill up the tank you can afford a synthetic oil change, and you get nearly 3 times the mileage.
If you're buying a 20k + car, don't you think it makes sense to put synthetic oil in it? Seriously, conventional oil is straight crap, if you can afford to fill up the tank you can afford a synthetic oil change, and you get nearly 3 times the mileage.
03-21-2008 | 10:51 PM
#115
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,428
Just drop it guys, you are talking about an engine that gets 19/26mpg in the sky...which weighs 3000lbs. Add the weight of the Camaro and the extra drag from its size and the point of increased avg corp fuel economy isn't valid.
Last edited by number77; 03-21-2008 at 10:57 PM.
03-21-2008 | 11:47 PM
#116
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Posts: 378
From: San Jose
03-22-2008 | 12:15 AM
#117
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03-22-2008 | 03:44 AM
#119
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,130
From: Kentucky
The V6 Camaro won't outrun the V8 Mustang, especially when the redesigned Mustang debuts shortly after Camaro. So I wouldn't consider that possibility.
"Premium priced" scares me a little. A couple hundred dollars over a comparable Mustang is not, IMO, a "premium". Premium to me means $1,000 - or more. Suspension might be better, but I wonder about that interior.
"Premium priced" scares me a little. A couple hundred dollars over a comparable Mustang is not, IMO, a "premium". Premium to me means $1,000 - or more. Suspension might be better, but I wonder about that interior.
Also agree that, "premium" at least to me, means thousands more.
03-22-2008 | 03:46 AM
#120
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,130
From: Kentucky
Wal mart brand synthetic has always worked for me
Cost less the a premium brands sytech blend oils and is of better quality then the syntech blend.