Lutz: No more RWD
#1
Lutz: No more RWD
GM puts brake on rear-drive vehicles
Published April 10, 2007
Jim Metaja, Chicago Tribune
General Motors has put a hold on future rear-wheel-drive vehicles.
"We've pushed the pause button. It's no longer full speed ahead," Vice Chairman Bob Lutz revealed in an interview.
Two of the most important RWD cars in the works are the Chevy Camaro sports coupe due back late in 2008 and the full-size, RWD replacement for the Chevy Impala sedan for 2009. Both are expected to be huge sellers and contribute major profits to a GM till burdened with IOUs the last few years.
"It's too late to stop Camaro, but anything after that is questionable or on the bubble," said Lutz, noting that also means Camaro derivatives -- along with a big Impala sedan, "if we call it Impala."
The RWD cars, you see, would be larger and heavier than front-wheel-drive cars or are high-performance models.
So it comes down to the matter of fuel economy. Or as Lutz says: "We don't know how to get 30 percent better mileage from" RWD cars.
That 30 percent bogey arises from a proposal by the Bush administration to raise corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) standards by 4 percent a year so cars would have to average 34 m.p.g. by 2017, up from 27.5 m.p.g. today. On top of that, the Supreme Court ruled last week that the Environmental Protection Agency can regulate carbon dioxide expelled by cars, a gas that contributes to global warming. The EPA doesn't do so now.
"We'll decide on our rear-drive cars when the government decides on CO(-2) levels and CAFE regulations," Lutz said, adding that limiting CO(-2) would increase mileage, too.
"Carbon dioxide is a natural byproduct of burning gas and directly proportional to the amount of fuel burned. If we legislate CO(-2) from cars, why not legislate we take one less breath per minute since humans release capricious amounts of CO(-2) each time they exhale?" offered a testy Lutz.
Lutz also points out that higher mileage will come at a price, with the proposal to raise CAFE certain to increase costs by as much as $5,000, which will be added to a car's sticker, an amount most consumers won't be willing to pay. There are no hard numbers for how much CAFE compliance adds to the sticker now.
"Rather than buy new, people would hang onto their old cars. We could eat the $5,000, but that would put us out of business."
Besides, those who see cars as more than just an appliance are eager for the new RWD offerings.
Among other cars affected are a high-performance midsize Pontiac, a replacement for the full-size Buick Lucerne sedan, a compact smaller than the current CTS at Cadillac and possible 300-horsepower versions of the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky roadsters.
"This is very disappointing," noted Erich Merkle, director of forecasting for IRN Inc., in Grand Rapids, Mich. Most of the cars coming are necessary to GM's turnaround as showroom magnets.
"What the public buys makes CAFE work, not what the industry builds," Merkle added. "To improve mileage you change demand, not supply, by raising gas prices through taxes. But no politician is going to do that so they throw the responsibility on the back of the industry."
Lutz also objects to the talk that carmakers can easily raise mileage with a very low investment.
"Academics assure us that for $200 we can get 30 percent better mileage. If anyone can figure out how to do that for $200 -- or even for $1,000 -- I want them in my office today. Show me how to do it and we'll adopt it," he said. "If I could increase mileage by 30 percent for $200, why wouldn't I? What's my motivation not to when a gas-electric hybrid gets 27 percent better mileage and I hope someday to get the cost down to $9,000?"
Others insist that carmakers simply have to sell more small cars, such as the trio of 1-liter concepts that promise 40 m.p.g.-plus that GM unveiled at the New York Auto Show.
"Small-car mileage only counts toward CAFE if you build them here, and you can't build small cars here at a profit," Lutz said, explaining that foreign-made cars would count toward the automaker's import fleet, and its domestic fleet is where GM needs help.
Published April 10, 2007
Jim Metaja, Chicago Tribune
General Motors has put a hold on future rear-wheel-drive vehicles.
"We've pushed the pause button. It's no longer full speed ahead," Vice Chairman Bob Lutz revealed in an interview.
Two of the most important RWD cars in the works are the Chevy Camaro sports coupe due back late in 2008 and the full-size, RWD replacement for the Chevy Impala sedan for 2009. Both are expected to be huge sellers and contribute major profits to a GM till burdened with IOUs the last few years.
"It's too late to stop Camaro, but anything after that is questionable or on the bubble," said Lutz, noting that also means Camaro derivatives -- along with a big Impala sedan, "if we call it Impala."
The RWD cars, you see, would be larger and heavier than front-wheel-drive cars or are high-performance models.
So it comes down to the matter of fuel economy. Or as Lutz says: "We don't know how to get 30 percent better mileage from" RWD cars.
That 30 percent bogey arises from a proposal by the Bush administration to raise corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) standards by 4 percent a year so cars would have to average 34 m.p.g. by 2017, up from 27.5 m.p.g. today. On top of that, the Supreme Court ruled last week that the Environmental Protection Agency can regulate carbon dioxide expelled by cars, a gas that contributes to global warming. The EPA doesn't do so now.
"We'll decide on our rear-drive cars when the government decides on CO(-2) levels and CAFE regulations," Lutz said, adding that limiting CO(-2) would increase mileage, too.
"Carbon dioxide is a natural byproduct of burning gas and directly proportional to the amount of fuel burned. If we legislate CO(-2) from cars, why not legislate we take one less breath per minute since humans release capricious amounts of CO(-2) each time they exhale?" offered a testy Lutz.
Lutz also points out that higher mileage will come at a price, with the proposal to raise CAFE certain to increase costs by as much as $5,000, which will be added to a car's sticker, an amount most consumers won't be willing to pay. There are no hard numbers for how much CAFE compliance adds to the sticker now.
"Rather than buy new, people would hang onto their old cars. We could eat the $5,000, but that would put us out of business."
Besides, those who see cars as more than just an appliance are eager for the new RWD offerings.
Among other cars affected are a high-performance midsize Pontiac, a replacement for the full-size Buick Lucerne sedan, a compact smaller than the current CTS at Cadillac and possible 300-horsepower versions of the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky roadsters.
"This is very disappointing," noted Erich Merkle, director of forecasting for IRN Inc., in Grand Rapids, Mich. Most of the cars coming are necessary to GM's turnaround as showroom magnets.
"What the public buys makes CAFE work, not what the industry builds," Merkle added. "To improve mileage you change demand, not supply, by raising gas prices through taxes. But no politician is going to do that so they throw the responsibility on the back of the industry."
Lutz also objects to the talk that carmakers can easily raise mileage with a very low investment.
"Academics assure us that for $200 we can get 30 percent better mileage. If anyone can figure out how to do that for $200 -- or even for $1,000 -- I want them in my office today. Show me how to do it and we'll adopt it," he said. "If I could increase mileage by 30 percent for $200, why wouldn't I? What's my motivation not to when a gas-electric hybrid gets 27 percent better mileage and I hope someday to get the cost down to $9,000?"
Others insist that carmakers simply have to sell more small cars, such as the trio of 1-liter concepts that promise 40 m.p.g.-plus that GM unveiled at the New York Auto Show.
"Small-car mileage only counts toward CAFE if you build them here, and you can't build small cars here at a profit," Lutz said, explaining that foreign-made cars would count toward the automaker's import fleet, and its domestic fleet is where GM needs help.
Camaro aside, it just flat out sucks that GM has to kill RWD plans, especially when it's to keep tree huggers happy.
Imposing CO2 standards is just stupid. There's ample proof that it's not causing global warming, yet millions of idiots run around like the sky is falling every time they hear about it.
Looks like the big 3 can all sing their swan song if the CAFE gets their way.
#2
What
The
****?
I was so hopeful for the GM turn around with the new cars, especially with the G8 coming....
30K is my limit for a V-8 camaro, and to me, owning a v-6 just isn't the same.
The
****?
I was so hopeful for the GM turn around with the new cars, especially with the G8 coming....
30K is my limit for a V-8 camaro, and to me, owning a v-6 just isn't the same.
Last edited by Silverado C-10; 04-10-2007 at 12:36 PM.
#3
Important that EVERYONE read up on Global Warming.
It isn't all that it appears.
I'm reading a book now - after reading so much on-line.......and I think that there are political agendas at work.........
The name of the book is "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Global Warming" -- by Christopher c. Horner.
I don't agree with all he says - but it certainly gave me pause -- and confirmed what I'd thought...........
It isn't all that it appears.
I'm reading a book now - after reading so much on-line.......and I think that there are political agendas at work.........
The name of the book is "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Global Warming" -- by Christopher c. Horner.
I don't agree with all he says - but it certainly gave me pause -- and confirmed what I'd thought...........
#6
Well...so much for my pipe-dream of getting a G8 one day.
This may not stop the Camaro, but does it pose a danger of turning it into a very limited, short production? Maybe you guys are going to have to stop laughing at those hydrogen and electric camaro threads, eh?
This may not stop the Camaro, but does it pose a danger of turning it into a very limited, short production? Maybe you guys are going to have to stop laughing at those hydrogen and electric camaro threads, eh?
#9
It is amazing to me how everyone seems to be an internet scientist when it comes to global warming. I don't believe I have ever seen one expert post, just a lot of regurgitated crap someone who thinks they know what they are talking about wrote. We may exhale CO2, but not in the levels that an automobile does, so I don't even see how that is a relevant arguement. Again, before someone calls me a treehugging hippy, which I assure you I am not, it is still only a theory, and could very well be not happening. Every NEW science journal I read about it in always seems to say otherwise though, and these are guys that devote their lives to environmental science.
Whew. All that being said, it is not pleasing to see GM dumping some (or maybe all) of it's RWD lineup. However, something doesn't click on this. How much harder is it really on gas mileage on a RWD car? How much more could it actually weigh? Anyone think Lutz said this to perhaps put heat on the Bush administration's CAFE decision? Finally GM has some more than a few interesting things in the pipeline, and this is likely to completely ruin it for them?
Whew. All that being said, it is not pleasing to see GM dumping some (or maybe all) of it's RWD lineup. However, something doesn't click on this. How much harder is it really on gas mileage on a RWD car? How much more could it actually weigh? Anyone think Lutz said this to perhaps put heat on the Bush administration's CAFE decision? Finally GM has some more than a few interesting things in the pipeline, and this is likely to completely ruin it for them?
#11
Important that EVERYONE read up on Global Warming.
It isn't all that it appears.
I'm reading a book now - after reading so much on-line.......and I think that there are political agendas at work.........
The name of the book is "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Global Warming" -- by Christopher c. Horner.
I don't agree with all he says - but it certainly gave me pause -- and confirmed what I'd thought...........
It isn't all that it appears.
I'm reading a book now - after reading so much on-line.......and I think that there are political agendas at work.........
The name of the book is "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Global Warming" -- by Christopher c. Horner.
I don't agree with all he says - but it certainly gave me pause -- and confirmed what I'd thought...........
You can also read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gre...arming_Swindle
It does a great job of explaining what's going on scientifically and helping to show that global warming, while certainly a known issue, is most definately NOT a man made event, and why rising carbon dioxide levels is an EFFECT, not a cause.
#12
"Small-car mileage only counts toward CAFE if you build them here, and you can't build small cars here at a profit," Lutz said, explaining that foreign-made cars would count toward the automaker's import fleet, and its domestic fleet is where GM needs help.
Sounds like more than the Domestics will be in trouble. Toyota now builds the tundra, tacoma, and some of their SUV's here along with the corolla and camry. Toyota's fleet of gas sucking vehicles is growing as well. I believe they import their small cars.
#13
Knee-jerk .
I guess it won't end until all of the cars are off the road, and we're all riding horses again ... but then some environmental junkie will say that air quality is suffering because of the high volume of methane (natural gas) being emitted by all the horses on the roads .
We're all doomed ..... time to curl up in a little cocoon where we're "safe" from anything ever happening to us ... don't go outside, don't run (you might fall and hurt yourself) and certainly NEVER, EVER drive a car! They're dangerous, and poisonous to us all!!
Back to the stone ages!
... maybe we should give up fire? It's dirty and pollutes too .
I guess it won't end until all of the cars are off the road, and we're all riding horses again ... but then some environmental junkie will say that air quality is suffering because of the high volume of methane (natural gas) being emitted by all the horses on the roads .
We're all doomed ..... time to curl up in a little cocoon where we're "safe" from anything ever happening to us ... don't go outside, don't run (you might fall and hurt yourself) and certainly NEVER, EVER drive a car! They're dangerous, and poisonous to us all!!
Back to the stone ages!
... maybe we should give up fire? It's dirty and pollutes too .
Last edited by Capn Pete; 04-10-2007 at 01:21 PM.
#14
Make sure you watch "The Great Global Warming Swindle". It's available on Youtube.
You can also read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gre...arming_Swindle
It does a great job of explaining what's going on scientifically and helping to show that global warming, while certainly a known issue, is most definately NOT a man made event, and why rising carbon dioxide levels is an EFFECT, not a cause.
You can also read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gre...arming_Swindle
It does a great job of explaining what's going on scientifically and helping to show that global warming, while certainly a known issue, is most definately NOT a man made event, and why rising carbon dioxide levels is an EFFECT, not a cause.
#15
Im not at all worried... Everyone was in a gas panic right before the GMT900 came out and they didn't go flushing those...They aren't going to flush the cars that are the product of years of trying to become more cost effective, produce on a global scale and compete with the best.
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=513923
http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=513923