boxerperson,

From one 23 year old to another…..GREAT POST!

 

And how, praytell, will that help the cause of the V8 muscle car? Gasoline consumption and our desire to reduce it has become a non-partisan issue. If Bush wasn't looking to increase the standard, make no mistake that someone else, Dem or Rep, would be after 2008. For the best interests of our country (and since we're not allowed to explore and drill for yet-untapped oil right under us), I agree with it.

But at the same time:

Josh, you sound like every other whiny little---well----that posts in general automotive forums on the net. "Oh the freaking humanity, gas will be $3/gallon again and GM wants to build a muscle car?!?!? Oh the horror!" It's more of the misinformed, 1968 thinking of the characteristics of V8 engines. Which is why GM needs to market the bejeesus out of the efficiency of their LSx motors. I never understood why they didn't brag about the LS1/LS2's mileage.

Why does Chevy need a Camaro? Hell, why does Ford need a Mustang? What makes that car any less vulnerable than Camaro?

I've been screaming for a long time on this board asking why GM can't get its head out of its butt and build a truly economical small car.....like, 40+ MPG highway like the Corolla and Civic. You don't even need a hybrid system to achieve this. ToyoHonda have already proven it. It's a joke that the Aveo can't come close.

GM cannot abandon its heritage and expect to stay afloat. They need to build cars that appeal to a wide range of buyers.

 

GM needs the camaro as a sales booster. Not necessarily in Camaro sales, but the sales the camaro will generate from getting people into the showrooms.

Lets face it people, GM commercials blow, especially when compared to other mfg's, such as Toyota's commercials. People aren't running to showrooms because Dale jr. is rollin' around in an Impala.

Here's a scenario with a potential car buyer:

"Honey, I know we don't need a camaro, and we're looking for a family car, but lets stop off at the chevy dealership first to check out the new camaro..."

After checking out the Camaro and walking around the lot....

"Ya know honey, those camry's are kind of pricey and boring looking, but that black impala looks SWEET and the V-6 gets good fuel economy..."

or some crap like that.



And the biggest reason GM needs to build the camaro...

I WANT ONE!

 

I know, wouldn't that just be HORRIBLE?

BRAZIL runs ALL of their vehicles on E85... ALL OF THEM. This was on 60 minutes a few months ago. Their economy went from crap to really good because the money stayed in the country and the farmers were making good off of their crop.

There's 2 stations here in greenville. Both are within 5 miles from me. What I don't understand is that every time gas goes up, E85 goes up the same amount. I haven't figured that out yet. Technically, shouldn't it only go up 15% of what gas is going up, considering it's only 15% gas?

 

The price of E85 is artificially held down I believe. The USA is a much bigger country than Brazil as well. Brazil's solutions don't transfer to the US's that easily.

 

A vehicle DESIGNED FROM THE START to be lightweight *can* be LESS expensive.

It only gets expensive if you try to "add on" light weight after the fact.

Making the Camaro a 2-door Caddy instead of a 2+2 Solstice Coupe with a V8 was a BIG mistake in my humble estimation...

 

I don't think anyone is argueing that.

While I don't disagree with this, it is alittle too late now.

 

Was it too late in August '05?

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=392331

 

3200 pounds is simply unrealistic for a car like Camaro in this day and age.

Look, a stretched Kappa structure wasn't going to happen. Too much cost to engineer a way to hack it, stretch it, make it crash worthy and yet able to handle great gobs of horsepower. Either that or you don't mind a $60,000 Camaro that's designed from the ground up with an all-aluminum Z06 type frame, etc. How much does the "small" Nissan 350Z weigh? 3300+ pounds?

Perhaps the 6th Gen will make use of the currently being studied-Alpha platform.

 

Here's a sad fact most probably don't know. They are ripping up the rain forrests of South America at an alarming rate. Why?? to plant corn for E85. Which is better for the Earth?? Rain forrests which produce about 3/4 of the oxygen and fresh air we breath? or E85? There's no profit in rain forrests though. And before you guys call me a tree hugger I'm a right wing conservative. (that happens to care about nature). and I HATE hippies.

 

Well, they sure didn't mention THAT in the 60 minutes story. They summed it up as Brazil had a huge surplus of sugarcane and nothing to do with it. I doubt they would plant corn, sugar cane and switch grass have MUCH higher yeilds per acre than corn. Anyway, that's not cool at all

 

Camaro is definitely a marketing tool. Many people will go to look at the "cool" Camaro, and come home with a Malibu after getting caught up in the emotion. Car buying is emotional for 60% of the consumer population. Undoubtedly people that buy a Camaro will also decide to buy a Chevy crossover for the growing family, or a Chevy pickup to tow the boat, or maybe a Chevy compact for a kid in high school or college. If nothing else, it's one less dealership for them to have to visit for service.

Could GM build a Camaro on the Sky platform? Yep.
What would it cost? A lot to develop and sell.
Would it get 5 star crash ratings? Probably not.
Would it compete with other GM products? Maybe.
Could GM build a V8 Camaro the gets 34 MPG? No doubt in my mind if development dollars were unlimited and we were all OK with driving a Camaro made in Mexico or China(due to price targets).

Ford can't do it with the Mustang for the very same reasons. The Mustang traffic is helping to keep their other sales afloat. Everyone who wanted a "New" Mustang has one now. Ford is scrambling to keep the traffic up and they coming up with a few ridiculous ideas to do so (example #1: renaming 500 and Freestyle as Taurus and Taurus X to cause "excitement" )

I'm hoping that GM is serious about product development and that VOLT and other ideas become reality in the future state. To me the Lutz statement sounded like frustration based on government moves that could "pinch" the near term strategy and planning. I'm OK with it if that is the case and I'm not going to panic.

I just hope that the true impact of the regulatory efforts don't squash the "long term" vision because then the General will have been moving counter to their competition strategically. GM and Ford were both guilty of building vehicles that they wanted to build (big bland boats or profitable platforms) versus the cars that the public wanted (stylish fuel efficient autos) a couple of times in history. The focus on feaverishly updating Explorer and Tahoe even as SUV sales started to sway are recent reminders. I bleed GM and but I hope that they are really planning for the future so that I don't have only Toyotas and Hondas to choose from in the future.

 

Common reason/excuse, but I'm still not buying it. Mazda RX-8 weighs 3000 lb. Throw out the rotary and throw in an LS2 and you shouldn't be over 3200. Mazda made weight a PRIORITY with the RX-8. It was a platform designed from the outset to be reasonably light.

They *could* have developed the Solstice to be a platform for the Camaro, but chose to do it as quick as possible at the expense of future expansion. Not necessarily saying that decision was *wrong*, btw, but I think it would've been much better for the Camaro and Solstice to have been developed on the same platform.
Mallett LS2 Solstice weighs 3000 lb. GM 2+2 fixed-roof coupe Solstice/Camaro could've easily come in at 3200 or less.


350Z is not small. It is a 2-seat Infiniti G35. A real porker and a HUGE disappointment to me. Yet another argument AGAINST building the Camaro on a Cadillac platform.

IMO, GM had the opportunity to make the new Camaro a true landmark car, but decided instead to just make a GM version of Ford's '05 Mustang (Lincoln).

Still looking forward to seeing it! But no way I'll be buying one.

 

Wow has this thread become a monster!!! Not that 11 pages is that much, but the content is now all over the map! I especially like how this whole issue of GM holding off on future vehicles due to upcoming regulations has turned into a weight discussion - a prolonged one!! Unbelievable!!!!

 

Weight is at issue because:
Here's how: Make them SMALLER and LIGHTER.