i'm not speaking price wise, but selling points, he said it in this thread.

 

Depends on the MPG of the V6 Camaro. My 98 3800 got the same gas milege as my 02 Accord.

100k is a very reasonable number. Mustang is going to be the only competitor at that price. All of the short commings holding back the previous gen have been addressed. Firebird isnt going to be competing. GTO will be competing with Challenger and Charger. And is the Z returns to its roots, it could be a baby Bimmer addition to the Camaro line. There is soo much potential there its not funny...

 

If I remember right, DCX said around 17k a year for the Challenger. Don't have a source though.

As for the Camaro, price it right and it will sell guarenteed. Price a V8 vert model with DOD right and you've got one sale right here.

 

Does anyone know how many Firebirds were sold in 2002?

With no Firebird to purchase I'm sure at least some Firebird fans would be willing to purchase a Camaro. I know if there were only a Firebird available I'd purchase one.

 

I dont think any of the numbers from 2002 are really relevant to anything.

It was the last year of a basically 20-year old layout and 9 year old shell. It was also the well known death year. Go back to a big sales year like '94. Or whatever year the 98+ cars sold well.

 

I know 2002 was a low year. That's why I asked about it. If combined Firebird and Camaro sales were over 100,000 for their LOWEST year, then 100,000 a year should be sustainable level for the new Camaro. That was the connection I was using in my mind to make it 'relevant'. <--Not said sarcastic despite the fact I think it sounded that way.

 

That's sorta the point I was trying to make. I don't think there are enough people in the "sports coupe" segment sitting there waiting to buy a car. I think that in order for GM to get the numbers they want, even if the Challenger is a more upscale niche vehicle, GM is going to have to pull buyers from other markets. Maybe years ago there were 260k or 300k annual buyers in that market, but they aren't there now. Mustang is chugging along at 100-150k (minus the bump due to the new model). 100-150k buyers shared between Mustang and Camaro means Camaro falls short on numbers. Answer? Appeal to other markets. You need to get women to buy a Camaro instead of a Jetta. You need to get men to buy a Camaro instead of an Explorer. You need to get Joe Civic and all his ricer buddies to see the light and come over to the Sports Coupe segment. It would be nice if you could get BMW buyers to convert, but like you said, not likely.

The hardcore gearheads will flock to this car, but the car's sucess depends on the masses who aren't hardcore-anything. I just don't know if I see enough of those people to feel confident about GM selling 100k plus units beyond the first couple years.

 

What do you base this on?

 

About 60K total F-bodies in 2002 and 70,000 in 2001. Not combined 100K there..

You have to go back to like 98 to find a year they sold over 100K combined.

 

So is the Camaro only for US market then? They aren't thinking to go global with this car?

 

Thanks, that's what I wanted to know. I wasn't aware the #'s included both the Camaro and Firebird.

 

If they changed the name of every Chevy model to Camaro, I bet they would sell a lot more than 100,000

 

some pppl are making assumptions that ppl who bought firebirds will switch, Not likely. infact until the Bird does come back I'm not buying any New G.M.

 

I wasn't saying ALL Firebird owners would switch. But I have no doubt some would.

I've always prefered Camaro over Firebird, but if the Camaro had not come back and the Firebird had, I would have been looking at a new Firebird.

Really, did anyone honestly think the Firebird would come back but not the Camaro? Didn't the Camaro usually (I'm not saying always because I don't know) outsell the Firebird? And the Camaro was technically the first of the two, the Firebird was essentially a Camaro that they changed the front and rear on when they were introduced.

I love both, don't get me wrong. But the Camaro was generally the 'bigger' of the two. How often did you see something about the 'Mustang vs. Firebird'? I'd be willing to bet nowhere near as often as 'Mustang vs. Camaro'. I've read mags with comparisons of Mustang, Camaro AND Firebird, but never Mustang and Firebird alone.

Again, I loved the Firebird nearly as much as the Camaro, but it makes the most sense that Camaro would be revived of the two. (Despite the Firebird actually being the one with the 'always rising from the ashes of it's own death' Phoenix.)

 

I don't want to rehash the whole Firebird revival and possibly hijack the thread, but I'll say it again what I've said in the past:
Shouldn't Camaro outsell Firebird anyways, due to the larger volume of Chevy dealerships when compared to Pontiac dealerships, as well as the fact that Firebird has always been more expensive comparing similar models? People seem to make it out to be that Firebird sold 10k units annually and isn't worth the effort and resources to bring back. (Not directing this at you, just in general what others have said)

I understand the points that the coupe market probably can't have Mustang, Camaro, Firebird etc because it's not large enough. As well as the fact that GM would theoretically be wasting resources on a re-badged Camaro as a Firebird and thus should focus on Camaro only. But I think it's a grave mistake on GM's part not to bring back a car that has a rich history and heritage of 35 years as Pontiac's "halo" car.

WHat bothers me is reading that GTO will basically be a Camaro twin based on the same platform, and yet noone has a problem with it. But everyone did when Firebird shared the same platform. I understand GTO will be different in size, but I beleive Pontiac could make Firebird substantially different from Camaro add it as an exciting car to its lineup.