Ehhhh. So its chicken and beef you say? People will buy a Camaro because there is no Pontiac dealer near them... But they won't buy a Camaro if a Firebird doesen't exist... Hmmmmm... Thats a bit of a stretch there.

As for the price thing yes, but that can't really be helped. Especially if we want the cars to have more different than just skin.

I dont know if Firebird was definitively Pontiac's "Halo" car for 35 years... Yeah it was usually the best performer, but that alone a "Halo" does not make. I mean by that logic the GTO is Pontiac's current "Halo" which is laughable. Just because a car is the top of the line, or accels in one or several fields doesen't make it an automatic "Halo".
The new Impala is going on this platform too... So its foolish to say GTO will be to Camaro as Firebird was too Camaro.

The current GTO and the F-bodies of memory have completely different personalities. Part of that is due to the fact that the GTO is a lot bigger on the inside. But I don't believe that these Firebird fans who are threatening to boycott GM would be satisfied if the two really were diffrentiated. If you make one AWD a good number on both sides will hate it, if you make one N/A V8 and one FI V6 both sides are gonna hate it again.

As usual GM is damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

 

You are correct.

It isn't at this point in time. Even if it sold the same number of units as Camaro it probably wouldn't be worth the effort to bring back (forgetting for a moment the idiocy that is the G5 and the Torrent). It really doesn't make a lot of sense to make a Camaro clone Firebird. And sadly Camaro is probably a more popular name so the marketing gurus have to believe that given a choice between the name on an identical car, the Camaro would sell more units.

I want a new Firebird as much as the next guy, but it probably is in GMs best interest not to build it as a Camaro clone.

 

Thats EXACTLY what the GTO is. Right along side the Solstice. What did you think the high performance leather interior LOW volume muscle car with the Vette motor was? And yes Firebird was Pontiacs halo car as well even though its production numbers were higher.

Theres a little irony in a Camaro thread getting hijacked by Firebird

 

speculation, just like everybody elses basis in this thread. All we're doing is armchair quarterbacking here.

You really think a lot of BMW owners are going to trade in their 325i or Z4 for a Camaro? Go talk to a BMW owner for a while and see what he thinks about GM.

 

One hundred grand? That's all they are aiming for?

Not shooting very high.....it will do much better than that I believe.

 

Hey guys, I do not post much but I need to know something concerning this 100,000 Camaro sales goal. Personally I think they can do it with competitive pricing, avoiding markups, and good advertising. Through this same issue came up on another board and I need to know if I am in the right or wrong. I go under the same screen name.

http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52015

 

Dealers control markups. Seems GM is unable to control their dealers in any way, though Ford and Chrysler seem able to with regards to excessive markups.

Competitive pricing is great in theory, and Lutz himself publically stated the Camaro would be only a few hundred more than Mustang. But now reality is creeping in, and the numbers aren't quite matching. Independent rear suspension, weight cutting, and a high quality interior are straining price targets. Word is that although Camaro is going to be a "steal" compared to everything else with the same equptment and features, you aren't likely to see a new base Camaro going for the base Mustang's $19K price.

As for advertizing, I don't think one needs to worry too much about that.

The 1st time someone sees that evil looking thing cruise by in the opposite direction or in the rear view mirror as it pulls up behind them with that big gold Chevy bowtie in the grille, they'll know what dealer to go to and what car it is.



BTW: you know, for a Camaro site, the administrators (Gary S and Eric) needs to brush up on a few things.

Examples:
*4th gen production was shut down with Camaro selling 100K cars per year.
*GM could "easily" sell a quarter million is they simply looked back to see how they did it in the 70s?
*Takes a base Camaro's price from 1970, and converts it to a modern Z28 costing $11,000 today.


Yep. Pretty much direct competitors as it seems to shaping up.

 

I try to tell those guys but they do not listen. I spend a lot of time there, most are good people, but some in particular are WAY behind the times.

 

I think youre refering to the BMW enthusiasts not most BMW buyers. At least with the 3 series...

 

For some reason I don't want to agree with that. Perhaps Im stuck on the fact that the GTO got a reception that was lukewarm at best and then the Firebirds have the issue that start with an "M".

But Im not gonna putting any effort into backing my opinion up so you win.

There are some car people who drive a BMW or whatever simply because its been a long time since the US produced a car that was seriously competitive with the refinement and image a BMW offers. Some of those people probably have means to add a Z28 as a 4th or 5th car.

It happened with the 300, it was a good deal, and the style factor was enough to make you sacrifice some things.

But anyone who thinks CLs and 3series are gonna start piling up on Chevy lots is delusional. It wouldn't matter if the 5th gen cost 10k and was made of solid gold.

 

Luke warm or not, it is still a Halo car. You dont have to win the race to be a canidate... For example, after the Camaro is released the Mustang will still be a pony car. I will take your concession though

not all of the 3 series owners are well off.

 

If that is really the case, it would be interesting to know how Ford and Chrysler are doing it.

Like our friend from the Red Planet said in the recent thread about the dealer advertising deposits being taken, at least GM has to follow Anti-Trust regulations which prevent them to dictating the prices the dealers should sell the cars.

 

Ah the good old days of the late 90's . 300hp Camaro's and $1.50 premium. How about making the new Camaro available on alternative fuels,and push that in a big way? That would garner positive press!

 

I heard DCX is shooting for about 45k Challengers

 

Allocations of more desireable and new models based on dealer performace. The better dealers tend to be the more honest ones in pricing.

In a way, you can say those special Mustangs (Mach1, Bullit, the new 2005), Thunderbirds when new, Ford GT, and formerly SVT franchises were ways to keep dealer gouging in check.

Chrysler advises dealers against excessive markups, and for some reason, they listen as if their lives depend on it (save showroom traffic builders like the Viper and Crossfire were when they 1st came out).

GM on the other hand doesn't seem to throw that type of weight around for some reason. Personally, I think it's traditional GM corperate timidness. Look at how much it took just to get a commercial of a SSR doing a J-turn, get approval of a car like the Solstice, and how they folded to the UAW in '97 after talking tough. Not a far reach imagining someone at GM not wanting to rock the boat with dealers who are scalping, even at the expense of future consumer goodwill or a division's future.