EXACTLY.

 

But they're not interchangeable. You apparently feel that they are, I don't.

Yes, I was being humble.

Plenty of people will "listen" to me, I don't know if it has any effect on any decision making though.

Forgive me Guy, but does that include you? I get the sense sometimes, that there are plenty of people who have NO INTENTION OF BUYING, browbeating those of us you do want/wanted to buy, because we wanted this car to be a certain way. That's bullsh!t.

 

I still think the biggest story in all this is not the advertising angle, it's not the "no Z/28" angle.
It's the remark of the exec who said "if the car doesn't sell 80,000 units the first year, I'll vote to kill it". THAT'S the REAL story here.

I would feel better if Scott (or someone from the Camaro team) came here and said "we know who said that and we're putting the hurt on him now".

 

Probably couldn't do that. If he/she has the stones to say something along those lines, he/she is pretty secure in their position...

Regardless, at the end of the day the car is going to have to make money. If it doesn't, the only reasonable thing to do is put a bullet in it anyway.

That all being said, this is all heresay. Let's see how this plays out.

Although I stand by my earlier assertion that any dolt in a marketing/ad agency who came up with the 350Z comment needs to be poked in the eyeballs, 3-stooges style.

 

Agreed. And if the DTS replacement gets killed, Camaro will carry ALL the developement costs of Zeta 2.

Regarding the marketing part, I'm sure that GM paid a pretty penny for that gem.

 

I think we need to look at these in more of a broad sense. Here's how I interpret it:

1. Those who want a V-8. = Consumers who are going to buy a V-8 no matter what because they value performance over fuel economy.

2. Those who want more excitement in their drive and will get the V-6. = Consumers who are concerned with with fuel economy, but still want a car that is exciting and enjoyable to drive.

3. People who want a car that "shocks their social network, like Nissan 350Z buyers." = Consumers that want something that makes them stand out and says something about their individuality based on the vehicle they drive.

The first two I get and they make sense. The last one, I'm not so sure about. I think I see where they're trying to go with it, but it's not hitting home with me (probably because I fall into that first market segment ). Consumers that understand the great heritage of the Camaro and plan on buying one are going to buy regardless of how the car is marketed. There are also going to be a lot of consumers in the market that may not know much about the heritage of Camaro. Using heritage to market to these consumers doesn't make a lot of sense to me because they might not connect with the Camaro's of old. I'm not saying that heritage should NOT be acknowledged, just saying it's hard to market heritage to a consumer that doesn't know the history of the car. Keep in mind, it's a new world today. Fuel economy is obviously a huge concern to buyers these days, and I think that's going to play largely into the Camaro's marketing strategy. That's just my 2 cents.

 

My guess is everything.

 

Jason,
That's good news.
What are the chances a dealer could tape that IDL broadcast and upload it to YouTube so that we could see it (hint to all you Chevy dealers out there)?

I'm still worried about that remark. I wish GM could and would commit to the car for 5 or 6 years.

 

I wish GM was on a 3-4 year product cycle.

The Impala, while a wonderful value, is going to need Viagra here pretty soon.

 

I'm guessing (based on Scott's comments) that the "inside GM source" isn't part of Team Camaro and simply came across some type of documentation that contained MY2009 Camaro information and speculated the Z28 was dead and leaked that info to SuperChevy. The additional comments about "one executive" saying the Camaro must sell 80k units per year to survive leads me to believe that perhaps this source is involved with sales/marketing and my not be privy to product development.

Furthermore I don't know why everyone is all over Charlie's case. All he said was that although this Z28 doesn't fit his idea of a Z28 he still sees the need for it and would fight for its existence with the folks he has contact within GM. I don't see a problem with that.

 

How can people make thread asking should they buy a 2010 Camaro or a 2009 Corvette (which is a 350Z competitor)???????

All one has to do is read alot of the things written on this very website, and the ad agency's conclusions aren't exactly a mystery.

Incomplete, yes. But not a mystery.

Nope, not bullsh!t, and of course you're forgiven.

I am being very realistic and honest, though.... My points:

1. I have no intention whatsoever of buying a GT500-like Z28 Camaro. Because of this, I'm not posting indignation over the rumor of this Z28 being in trouble. With only 5000 or so to be made annually, the odds of more than a few people here buying one is unlikely. That's not including the factor of price and guaranteed dealer scalping. I'm not against the car, but I have no dog in that fight.

2. I'm not making posts here that basically treats the car to a death sentence before the first car magazine gets it's hand on a preproduction car, let alone before the first car ends up on the assembly line. I'm waiting for the car to come out before I slam it.

3. I don't criticize the Camaro's weight because I can't name any onther 500 horse-plus, rear drive, IRS, V8 powered, 4+ passenger car on the planet that weighs less while costing less than $50,000.

3. I don't give blanket condemnations to GM's engineering staff because I know that they have to compromise weight and cost targets, while at the same time they are under TREMENDOUS pressure to keep weight down as low as possible while meeting strength and durability mandates. I know that if a car rolls down GM's assembly line it's as light as possible (the 4th gen Camaro V8 had a lighter duty axle than it should have had due to weight concerns).

4. I have not made any posts saying that I'm taking my money elsewhere. Because a car isn't exactly what I want. Camaro is on my short list for when I expect to buy a new vehicle next year, along with the Challenger R/T and the Pontiac G8 ST. If I buy something other than the Camaro, it won't be till after it comes out and after I've had a chance read reviews about it myself, to see it myself, drive it myself, and eveluate and compare it myself...... not 9+ months before.

If it feels like I'm browbeating others who think that the Camaro has to be a specific way or reach a specific yardstick, as long as it takes into account what hurdles the vehicle had to go through and look at what others have done or not been able to do, then yes, I probally am browbeating. But on the other hand, if one looks at the new Camaro, compares it to other vehicles, then decides that the new Camaro isn't the best car for them, then by no means am I browbeating anyone..... not my style.

Hope that clears up that "bullsh!t".

Shouldn't be. Look at how Lutz, Welburn, and even GM's own CEO Rick Wagoner had to essentially scheme to get the new Camaro.

They purposely waited and ran a Camaro concept through the system at the very last second in time to be used for the 2005 NAIAS and used the momemtum from the excitement of the public and press to railroad (there's no other word for it) the Camaro to production through a wall of opposition and fence sitters.

 

I think some people would be pissed no matter what they compared it to. They could have said mustang just as easily as 350z and people would be like "omg, camaro is so much better then mustang. what's so shocking about a mustang, everybody has one, even my little sister, and my boss and my best friend... Camaro is for the few, the proud, the extremes..."

lol, i just came up with that rippped off marine slogan myself, but kinda funny how accurate it is since there is STILL so much dedication to the V8 car and people who think the V6 car is just an afterthought...

 

EXACTLY!!!

 

What I find funny is that the V6 car will probably have more performance than a stock LT1 car had (horsepower and handling), but people aren't giving it any love. If GM can get the mileage up into the 20's and 30 on the highway, they could reach a completely different market with it. I think that is the jist of the original marketing assessment.

-Geoff

 

For the record, i'm glad they hired an ad agency that thinks they can compare the car favorably to a near-iconic japaense sport coupe. Just aiming for say mustang and challenger would be a huge mistake, there are only so many "i only buy american sporty car" buyers out there, and when i say so many, i mean very, very few.