Yeah, and mustang absolutely demolished the fbody, but that doesn't stop you and others from calling it an icon now does it? And that's how this whole thing started. Thanks for concluding my argument for me.

I don't read that ad idea as necesaarily saying it's a pure competitor to the Z car. When they say "shock their social network like the 350Z", i think they're talking more stylistically then anything else.

 

I must not get it or something, I think comparing to the 350z is a great idea! That car is a halo for a lot of young guys who think Honda is the performance leader, and if a v6 Camaro can be cost effective and blow their dream car away then there's some conquest buyers to gain.

And honestly, the Z is not a bad car at all. It's fun, handles great and while it fell short of my '99 WS6 TA, a lot of cars did (including any SRT8 vehicle). In no way would I compare the 350z to a v8 Camaro, but compare v6's and you're talking. Something else to consider in performance is handling - the Z corners like it's on rails and if GM can manage to beat it with a v8 Camaro that everyone thinks is a heavy, bloated pig then they will have designed and tuned a fantastic suspension, and created a marvelously fun car - at a price point that trumps everyone.

Lastly, keep in mind that perception = reality. It's how every politician gets elected, and politicians are loved or hated mostly on how big a gap there is between perception and reality. The exact same thing is true of cars - the perception of Z vs. Camaro can win buyers, even if the real performance of the Camaro is far superior.

 

See, this is where I think you are misreading the original statement.

They are not comparing the 350Z to the Camaro, they are comparing the people who might buy a Z to people who might buy the Camaro. And they are not saying they want to get people who want a Z to buy a Camaro, they are saying they want buyers who want to shock their social network the same way buyers of the Z do.

It is a subtle difference, but targeting prospective buyers is what marketing is all about.

-Geoff

 

That's how I read it too.

 

Right. People who buy a highly styled car, with a recognizable badge, that maybe not the most practical car. End-all performance really doesn't even matter outside enthusiast circles. For example, I am amazed at all the people that don't realize what a totally underpowered slug the RX8 is.

 

Honda?

As a former Nissan enthusiast let me assure you that Z-enthusiasts are much closer to us than Honda-racerboy enthusiasts. The original Fairlady Z was created by Datsun as basically a poor mans Jaguar E-Type, which is why much of its styling is similar. (Along with the original inline-six RWD layout.) While it has evolved over the years, it has stayed fairly close to the orginal concept (6 cylinders, RWD sports car).

Camaros on the otherhand, have always been a bigger (wider, longer, taller) 4 passenger coupe and while known for handling and performance have never been in the same category as the Z-cars. IMHO, the Z-car fits somewhere between the Camaro and Corvette. Its closer to the early E-type, Toyota 2000GT, RX-7, etc and not a V8 ponycar or V8 sports car. (I for one am a little torn that Nissan is considering putting a V8 in the Z-car.)

P.S. Don't rip on me for liking Nissans. When I was 25 and fresh out of college I couldn't afford the insurance on a new V8 Camaro, but I wanted a proper RWD coupe for my daily driver, so I bought a new Nissan 240SX. It was a great little car at the time. Camaros have always been my first love (over 30 years) and I have owned Camaros for the last 25 years.

 

When you crunch the numbers, it would seem the new Camaro will see second year production. With 5000 Chevy dealers and a 17 month production for 2010 model year, if every dealer would sell just 1 Camaro per month, the total comes out to 85,000. Now everybody can sleep easier.

 

They won't kill the car after one year. That is financial suicide.

 

I think too much is being read into the meaning of the article, If Camaro, Corvette, or any GM car do not generate sales and thus generate profit, they are gone or vastly reworked. This shouldn't come as a shock to anyone who follows the auto industry with anything more than a passing interest.

Cars sell on emotional responses, particularly cars that are sports or sporty. There isn't really much point in marketing the speed performance of a car, as that's something better proven on tracks at the grassroots. Turn good numbers and the folks that have interest in that will find out through reading, TV, the internet, and general word of mouth at bench racing sessions.

I see wisdom in pushing the message of style, handling, affordable to purchase, reasonable to INSURE, and OPERATE. Camaro is a car for folks who expect a little more out of their vehicle investment than mere transportation.

 

Troof.

 

Great post. Great points.

If.... and that's a huge IF... I had ever bought a Japaneese car, it would have been a Nissan Z or a Nissan 240SX. If...and again, a huge IF I were to ever buy a Japaneese car in the future, it would be the Infinity G35 or G37 coupe or sedan. Although I could even more remotely see a Lexus IS, there isn't a Honda that was ever made or ever will be made that even with brain damage I'd be intrested in.

 

One thing I learned from my stint in magazines is that most every editor is a headline grabber. The more outreageous, shocking, and traffic stopping the story is the quicker they are to publish it.

There's a magazine on the newstands right now proporting that the Firebird returning is a possibility based on an off hand comment from someone at GM (a long. long time ago, I suspect) that GM always keeps their options open depending on the marketplace.


Might want to talk to GM or read the book "All Corvettes Are Red". I would say pull up demographics and vehicles in market catagories, but I doubt any of that would change your mind, huh?


Saying you never said the Camaro was heavy because of the laziness?

Just don't get him started about Sigma (which is just as heavy if not heavier than Zeta).


I've owned a total of 4 Camaros. Three 4th gens and a 1967 Camaro. Brought pictures of them to the 5th gen unveiling a few years ago.

That "most probably" remark that I wouldn't buy one would be more accurate if you said "depending on how it stacks up"... again, because I'm going to wait till the car actually comes out before I decide.


Man's got a couple of points here.

 

I'd say you've got me confused with someone else.

Really, I think both of you guys should read what I say, instead of spinning it as you go along.

And oh man, after the boatload of crap both of you guys have hurled at me, BOTH OF YOU had better buy a new Camaro, or I will e-persecute you both without relent. I have a very long memory.

 

Nah, probably not

 

First thing I doubt is that there is ANYONE who is in upper management at GM who "hates" the Camaro....at least not anyone who truly counts that is...

I met Wagoner, Lutz, Peters, Lee, Pilcher, et.al. January '07 at the GM Style Event in Detroit and personally spoke with them concerning the Camaro....their enthusiasm was most evident.

This January, at the Corvette Pace Car unveiling in Indy, I spoke with Scott who made some comment about there being 'too many people' who now wanted to have input on the Camaro and it was cloggin up the works, so to speak....

So unless Ron Zarella or "Buickman" still have their cronies at GM, I'd like to hear the name of this so called malcontent.....otherwise I call BS.......